Why So Black - UOA Results, Bitsamissing 2.5TD

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For anyone interested in the background info to this post this link will fill in the blanks of how we got to here - the UOA's! http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...5850#Post940841 Now down to tin tacs. UOA's came back today which raises a few questions that I need your help with! First things first! The results! http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/?action=view¤t=TritonUOA1.jpg Heres a second view - with the evaluators comments bar scrolled to the second half of his message! http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/?action=view¤t=TritonUOA2.jpg In case those images aren't clear, heres what the results were:- Oil Kilometers Travelled 10,000 Total Kilometers Travelled 90,000 Oil Brand Pennzoil Oil Type Diesel LongLife Oil Grade 15W40 Oil Condition Normal Visc 40 121.6 Visc 100 N/A Water 0 Soot 169 Solids N/A Fuel N Glycol N/A Nitrates 56 Oxides 41 Sulphur 45 TAN N/A TBN N/A Fe 20 Cr 2 Pb 5 Cu 1 Sn 1 Al 3 Ni 0 Ag 1 Mn 0 Si 2 B 1 Na 3 Mg 25 Ca 3135 Ba 1 P 1117 Zn 1275 Mo 1 Ti 0 V 0 Cd 0 PQI 3 W N PFc - K 1 SYN SAE SAE Evaluator Comment:- IR ran using Penzoil Long Life LA due to limited information this time. Please supply exact oil information (LA or MA)? Viscosity is at the upper specification limit possibly due to the soot content. The oxidation, sulphur and nitration are slightly high. Is this component operating within the normal temperature range? The soot is slightly high Check that the engine boost pressure is within the manufactures specifications. Has this had dusty/restricted air filter elements? Suggest try reducing the service interval to clean the engine up. Suggest verify that this oil meets the API specification requirements of this engine type. Monitor chrome and lead in following samples for changes. More samples are needed to establish a trend. For evaluation enquiries please call : Call Robbie Taylor 0417 929 086 or Eddie Pyle on Ph 08 9377 9760 Customer comment:Engine fully rebuilt 90000 kms ago. uses oil and blows smoke - oil filthy black. So..... To my questions... 1. What the heck do they mean about supplying all the oil info next time? LA or MA - they say they ran the Infra Red Scan based on LA...because of a lack of info. I cannot see any info about LA or MA on the jugs the oil came in! Heres a couple shots of the labels on the jugs with all the details - what is he asking me to tell him with this LA / MA information?? http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/?action=view¤t=Pennzoil1.jpg http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/?action=view¤t=Pennzoil2.jpg I don't know what info he wants. As already explained - I've changed to Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic at this last oil change - but i will get the service manual and check that the oil (pennzoil in this UOA AND the Mobil Delvac 1, meet the manufacturers API specification for this engine! I will also change the air filter just for peace of mind, it was new at the rebuild 90,000 km's ago and been blown out with compressed air at each oil change since, still looks oK - but I'll change it ASAP just so theres no argument. The engine does run at normal temps - I've chedcked it with a thermomenter against an identical vehicle driving alonside each other under different conditions - it's within a couple degrees C at every check! Soot is high - no shyte sherlock - what have I been saying! Viscosity is at the upper limit possibly due to soot?...that would indicate the soot is possibly aglomerating no?... The boost is set just a whisker above manufacturers specs... Will monitor Chrome & lead in next samples to assess wear - Will also probably shorten the change intervals back to 5000km's (3000 miles) & run an Auto RX cleaning cycle or two and see if that helps clean things up any. 2. Anything else I should do? 3. Do the results give any clues as to what might be wrong other than what is in the asessement? 4. Does it look like a good UOA analysis service? (I was a little dissapointed the TBN numbers weren't checked - I am advised I have to buy a more expensive testing kit next time to get TBN testing done (this came standard with the Oilguard tests I was getting done stateside)! Many thanks again! Cheers!
 
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maybe LA and MA mean low ash and medium ash oils?? otherwsie to me looks like a lot of blow by and perhaps a rich fuel condition. bruce
 
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High soot - I think this is a fuel problem.When were the injectors last overhauled? At least every 100,000km for these engines,possibly sooner.Get them overhauled with new nozzles.Check the injection timing too - you need a DTI for this,most workshops that do Japanese diesels will have one.Backyarders tend to play with the max fuel screw on these small Japanese diesels - in for more fuel and power....out for more economy.Check the tamper seal on the max fuel screw,if it's gone then someone has been fiddling - and you won't know where you are.With that many kms I'd say getting the pump overhauled would be a good idea too.
 

Flywest

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Hi Silk, You could be right. The injectors were done 90,000 kms ago when the engine was rebuilt & the pump overhauled at the same time. Could I take it to the vehicle inspections contractor in town and get an exhaust gas analysis done? Wouldn't that tell meif it is overfueling? It has had new oil filter, new Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic oil, New Air filter, 10 days ago. It's done about 700km's since then, and I've just added 2 litres of oil because it was right down below add - almost to the bottom of the dipstick. In 700 kms that remaining 4.5 litres of oil is so black We aren't seeing any critical wear metals as yet, just elevated oxide and nitrate, sulphur etc - all tend to indicate either overfueling or excessive blow bye. You can see it blow brown smoke when cold if you drive behind it! It seems to go away as it warms up tho. Should it need a pump overhaul after 90,000 km's? I was once told never to do the injectors without doing the pump at the same time. This sounds expensive huh? Cheers!
 
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I had my pump in the Pajero overhauled at 300,000km just because I thought it should be worn out by then - my diesel guy said it looked perfect inside,just a service kit and calibration.So pump and injectors should be ok - you could pull an injector and make sure the nozzle is clean and flat,no under cutting. But 2 litres in 700km? That's your problem right there.
 

Flywest

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So where is it going? If a turbo seal were gone - wouldn't the pressurised oil get pushed past the seal - into the inlet manifold and thru the engine with the air and fuel and out the exhaust! Would this cause the elevated soot, nitrate, sulphur & oxisisation levels we are observing in the UOA? I guess a new turbo could do a seal in at 90,000 km's Anyone? Is there an easey way to tell if the seals gone in the turbo? (pull the tube and look for pools of oil inside the tube?). Any other way to diagnose this? Any other way that much oil is getting used? Cheers
 
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As I mentioned on the other thread - use a catch tank on the breather hose.The breather goes into the intake before the turbo,so you won't now if any oil there is from the turbo or breather,fitting the catch tank allows you to monitor oil in the breather,and to see if any oil is coming through the turbo.If it is coming out the exhaust side there will be clouds of white smoke,it is not going through the combustion chamber.
 

Flywest

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Thanks Silk, That makes a lotta sense. A catch tank huh?....would say a plastic inline fuel filter (ryco type), cut into the breather tube do that job?...catch any liquid oil going down the PCV breather tube to the turbo inlet tube? (assuming it lays on it's side and is clear plastic I could see the liquid oil build up!). I don't think the paper filter material inside it would cause any harm?. There is no clouds of white smoke that for sure! Theres a little blueish smoke at cold startup and then brownish as she warms up and then it seems to go away unless your REALLY step on it like to pass someone on the highway and you floor it - then she will send out brown smoke! Cheers!
 
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I tried various things - first just used a clear drink bottle,I could see the oil in the bottom....and water too,lots of condensation.Then I used a couple of old coolant header tanks,but they were a bit rough looking.So then I got one of those anodised alloy ones the boi racers use,looks real flash. I get about a shot glass full in 10,000km,I think that's ok.But the nice blue catch tank leaks down the inner guard,but not huge amounts.I've had a couple of attempts to seal it,but diesel oil has a way of finding ways out of containers.
 

Flywest

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Hi Silk, I did a test to see if there were any leaks in the filter box or ductws tothe inlet turbo manifolds etc to eliminate the dusted engine theory - which involved spraying ether around all the commections and joints. Quite simply - no leaks! Next I took it down to the local engine rebuilder for a quick diagnosis. He opened the oil filler cap to reveal a bit of oil blow by gasses from the sump. He also disconnected the PCV tube from the air inlet duct to show that this oily gas was making it;s way thru the turbo and out the exhuast such as to show that this is where the oil is going! I'm assuming your catch tank would do just that - capture the oil thats now going out the exhaust! I can't see how new rings can be shot in 90,000 km's, especially when the UOA isn't showing any high wear metals levels like chromium etc that you'd expect from rings! My only hope is that it is stuck rings in the piston grooves from excess agglomerated soot baked hard in there! I think I will run the Auto RX Treatement and see if it makes any difference! If not then I guess the rings really are shot in such a short time! Cheers!
 
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