Why run synthetic?

[surfstar]

Here’s why I run synthetic:

My car takes 3.5 qts. Mobil 1 is ~$20 for 5 qts at wally world. ~$6 for WIX filter. My oil change cost is ~$20 b/c I only use part of the 5 qts.
I change my oil at 5k miles, b/c my car is a 1993 and the recommended is 3750/7500 severe/normal. I know I have extra protection doing this and that my engine internals are clean w/o any flushes or additives needed.

Now for people who say that today’s dino oils are good enough, that’s fine. I enjoy a greater piece of mind knowing I’m using one of the top oils available. My car gets 32 MPG (that’s conservative, also) and over that 5k OCI, I will burn ~156 gallons @32MPG. At $2.40 a gallon (also conservative for this part of CA) I will spend $375 on gas during this period. So the cost of my oil change is roughly 1/20 or 5% that of my gas. To me it just makes sound sense. Plus the M1 is probably helping me get that good gas mileage.

Now for those with larger sumps, maybe synthetic is too much of a price difference, although if your car is newer, you can likely go longer OCIs. Once you factor in the gas money you spend (especially since a larger sump, means larger engine and you won’t be getting 30+ MPG) it really seems like the extra protection and cleaning ability is always worth it. Just my $.02.

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

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Originally posted by surfstar:
Here’s why I run synthetic:

My car takes 3.5 qts. Mobil 1 is ~$20 for 5 qts at wally world. ~$6 for WIX filter. My oil change cost is ~$20 b/c I only use part of the 5 qts.
I change my oil at 5k miles, b/c my car is a 1993 and the recommended is 3750/7500 severe/normal. I know I have extra protection doing this and that my engine internals are clean w/o any flushes or additives needed.

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Good reason.

quote:

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Now for people who say that today’s dino oils are good enough, that’s fine. I enjoy a greater piece of mind knowing I’m using one of the top oils available. My car gets 32 MPG (that’s conservative, also) and over that 5k OCI, I will burn ~156 gallons @32MPG. At $2.40 a gallon (also conservative for this part of CA) I will spend $375 on gas during this period. So the cost of my oil change is roughly 1/20 or 5% that of my gas. To me it just makes sound sense. Plus the M1 is probably helping me get that good gas mileage.

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I think you meant "peace of mind". "Piece of mind" has a totally different meaning - usually. I'm not usually a grammar cop, but that bugs me as much as someone writing "breaks" instead of "brakes". Certainly quality synthetics have their advantages when something goes wrong such as rapid loss of motor oil or coolant. I had a coolant hose blow and I'm thinking the Mobil 1 0W-30 in my crankcase might have saved the engine for the two miles I limped home.

As for fuel economy - the advantage of synthetic oils over conventional is probably almost nil these days. Synthetic motor oil probably had a lower friction advantage years ago, but these days conventional motor oils are heavily friction modified. The biggest thing is probably the viscosity of the oil. Perhaps a 0W-20 oil (which is only available as synthetic at this point) might provide better fuel economy, but that isn't what most people are using.

quote:

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Now for those with larger sumps, maybe synthetic is too much of a price difference, although if your car is newer, you can likely go longer OCIs. Once you factor in the gas money you spend (especially since a larger sump, means larger engine and you won’t be getting 30+ MPG) it really seems like the extra protection and cleaning ability is always worth it. Just my $.02.

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I think the biggest advantage of synthetics (Group III+ester or PAO+ester/AN) is resistance to oxidation and superior low temp flow. Cleaning ability isn't necessarily better - there are many "conventional" oils with boosted detergent additive levels, although the sludge resistance of synthetics could keep engines cleaner.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I agree with you completely surfstar and could not have said it better or with better grammar/spelling

 

[kenw]

" had a coolant hose blow and I'm thinking the Mobil 1 0W-30 in my crankcase might have saved the engine for the two miles I limped home."

probably not.

 

[doitmyself]

Or, you can believe the oil analysis labs that run thousands of samples annually (including the 2 site sponsers here) that say they see little, if any difference between engines on dino vs. synthetic under "normal" conditions.

The legitimate reasons for synthetic are: extreme hot/cold situations, turbos, extended drains, and... because that's what makes you happy.

 

[yannis]

quote:

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Originally posted by kenw:
" had a coolant hose blow and I'm thinking the Mobil 1 0W-30 in my crankcase might have saved the engine for the two miles I limped home."

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I faced a similar problem and i am glad i had read JohnBrowning advise that driving is possible as long you don't overheat the engine. I made it to the repair shop with 2+2 mile low speed driving.

 

[MADMIKE]

For 5,000 mile OCI's synthetics are a huge waste of money, plain and simple! There isn't an SL/GF-3 or SM/GF-4 dino out there that won't show a good UOA @ 5,000 miles in any type of service and the engine will outlast the rest of the car every time.

 

[Pablo]

I simply would not run any full dino oil 5K in my turbo.

 

[surfstar]

quote:

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I think you meant "peace of mind". "Piece of mind" has a totally different meaning - usually.

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Yeah i did a spell check, but not a grammer one. I doubt that M1 would affect a "piece" of my mind unless I drank it.

quote:

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Originally posted by MADMIKE:
For 5,000 mile OCI's synthetics are a huge waste of money, plain and simple! There isn't an SL/GF-3 or SM/GF-4 dino out there that won't show a good UOA @ 5,000 miles in any type of service and the engine will outlast the rest of the car every time.

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waste of money? its about a $10 difference for me & others with similar sump sizes. M1 not only cleans, but prevents build-up of sludge which is very beneficial for engines. Mine in particular has Hydraulic Lash Adjusters which mean the valves never need adjusting, but that the oil needs to be clean so that it does not clog the tiny inlet holes or else you get ticking. A dino run for 5k will not prevent this. UOAs show what condition the oil is in when it leaves the pan, not necessarily what the oil has left behind in the engine.

 

[MADMIKE]

I guess everyone is forgetting all the testimonials in a previous thread about running over 150K on your engine. Testimonial after testimonial of cheap dino running 300-400K miles on 5-6K+ OCI's. I know it shouldn't be possible but it is. Changing synthetic @ 5K is a waste of money because it's unnecessary.

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

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Originally posted by surfstar:

quote:

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I think you meant "peace of mind". "Piece of mind" has a totally different meaning - usually.

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Yeah i did a spell check, but not a grammer one. I doubt that M1 would affect a "piece" of my mind unless I drank it.

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Sorry - it just bugs me, although I realize you might have just typed away.

I'll never rag on obvious spelling mistakes.

quote:

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waste of money? its about a $10 difference for me & others with similar sump sizes. M1 not only cleans, but prevents build-up of sludge which is very beneficial for engines. Mine in particular has Hydraulic Lash Adjusters which mean the valves never need adjusting, but that the oil needs to be clean so that it does not clog the tiny inlet holes or else you get ticking. A dino run for 5k will not prevent this. UOAs show what condition the oil is in when it leaves the pan, not necessarily what the oil has left behind in the engine. [/QB]

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However - the latest Group II/III based "conventional" oils are very good, with lower volatility and much improved sludge resistance. At a local Wal-Mart, the 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is $19, while the 5 quart jug of Havoline is $6.50. I do the changes for my folks' 2001 Camry V6 (the famous "sludge monster") with a good mostly Group II conventional 5W-30/10W-30 like Chevron Supreme, Havoline, or Pennzoil w/ PureBase - changed every 4000 miles or 4 months. Filter varies, but it's usually a Champion Labs made filter.

I'm personally using Mobil 1 5W-30 in my 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX. I figure it's good for the turbo. I'm bumping up my change interval, even though I do quite a bit of stop and go driving on the way to/from work.

 

[MADMIKE]

Exactly my point on the dinos--they're very good and so much cheaper than synthetics. It just doesn't make sense to pay the premium for synthetics if you change it at 5,000 miles. Go with a good dino and you'll save a lot of money over the long haul with no loss of engine durability.

 

[unDummy]

Problem with oil analysis is: it doesn't analyze the filter, it doesn't see the sludge in the engine......

I also don't care for the "lasted 500k miles" on mineral oil. Driving style and location varies too much. Engine stress levels vary.

Synthetic is for me(even if only a groupIII).
Its isn't a waste of money if it prevents an engine failure.

 

[Cutehumor]

quote:

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Originally posted by doitmyself:

The legitimate reasons for synthetic are: extreme hot/cold situations, turbos, extended drains, and... because that's what makes you happy.

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extreme hot/cold..nope..turbos..nope..extended drains..nope..saving money. priceless

 

[Mr Nice]

Has anybody actually noticed any increase in gas mileage when using synthetic motor oils ??

 

[bulwnkl]

Yes, but not since my 1990 Honda CRX.

 

[mikemc]

Surf, sounds like you have a good maintenance program. I personally like a good dino because I have yet to experience any oil related problems in 20+ years of using Castrol GTX and Havoline, but there sure is nothing wrong with your program. BTW, our Cavalier's Ecotec holds 5 quarts and gets 34 mpg. If it had a 3.5 qt. sump, I might consider synthetic.

 

[surfstar]

quote:

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Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
Has anybody actually noticed any increase in gas mileage when using synthetic motor oils ??

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its quite hard for anyone to narrow it down to the oil without a large dataset. i also have some mods on my car, but it does exceed EPA hwy ratings frequently with about 90% hwy / 10% city driving. anecdotally, it can give higher MPG. i know people who switched all the oils (motor, tranny, diff) to synthetics and notice a 1-2 MPG increase supposedly.

 

[noob]

I use synthetic because I only change my oil once a year. I put about 8,000 miles on my car and it sees extremes in temperatures and RPMs (7700rpm redline). With dino, I'd have to do two oil and filter changes each year and wouldn't get the same cold weather protection that I get from synthetic.

 

[pharmer]

Madmike, From my own personal experience I can not agree with your blanket statement that conventional oil is fine for all engines with 5,000 mile oci's. I bought a new 1998 Toyota Sienna van in Nov. 1997. Changed oil religiously every 3,000 miles, Toyota filter and Havoline or Pennzoil 10w-30 dino oil. After 3 yrs., 30,000 miles (no towing, hauling, short trips, heavy loads, etc.) the engine developed the notorious "sludge" problem. My Toyota service mgr. suggested I use a synthetic to help eliminate the sludge and prevent further sludging. At 30,000 miles I switched to Mobil 5w-30 and change every 4,000 miles as my Toyota v-6 motor was one of the motors that is prone to sludge. I'm now at 75,000 miles, sludge is gone, and I use Mobil 1 synthetic every 4,000 miles. This may be an exception to your rule but I know for a fact that conventional oil in my Toyota would, and did, develope sludge problems. The synthetic, thusfar, has eliminated my sludge problem and that's the reason that I can't agree with you that there are no motors that need synthetic oil with 5,000 oci's. I learned the hard way, that in some cases, synthetic performs better than conventional dino oils, even with 3,000 mile oci's.