Why? Oh, Why? (A short story about Ford's FIlters)

[RWEST]

Just picked up a 2008 Taurus "X", which is the replacement for the Freestyle, AWD "Crossover". The Freestyle's 3.0 V-6 used the FL-820S filter, as have my various modular V-8's. After much consternation about Ford's using a metric threaded filter (and now my batch of FL-1A's would go to waste), I built up a stash of the FL-820's. Gotta' get into the 2000's, and our new metric age, and all that...

Yeah, baby, I'm happenin' now!!

Then, today, I discover that the 3.5 V-6 in the Taurus uses the 3/4-16 thread FL-400S.

And, the auto industry wonders why they're having so many financial problems....

 

[racer12306]

Thats funny stuff. Is the 3.5 a varient of the old 3.0 vulcan?

 

[Gary Allan]

I really wondered why Ford, after a lifetime of 3/4-16 thread filters ..just decided to go metric. They attempted to make some not so sensible economies in the process. The 4.0 takes a metric ..but it's adapted via the oil cooler on the right angle mount.

There's probably a way to convert one way or the other. On the Ford models that had the oil cooler sandwiched between the engine block and the right angle mount, you just buy a Mopar right angle mount and retain the longer Ford bolt.

 

[tenderloin]

Congrats on the 'X". Nice vehicle!

The 400S is similar in size to the filter (FL 2005) used on my sons long gone Focus (which BTW is still running strong at 135,000 miles.

 

[dnewton3]

I hear you and feel your pain. But the answer lies in places that you don't normally see, or aren't privy to.

I worked for Ford for 15 years. Not everything they do makes sense. But then again, that can be said for nearly all manufactures of all things. But we can't always see what they see.

You want to know why they moved from the metric filter? I can't tell you. But if you're going to ask why to that topic, then why not go larger conceptually and ask why there aren't just 3 filters (small, medium, large) on the market for ALL vehicles? Packaging, pricing, performance and availability all dictate the use of components! Commonization breeds cost savings, but it also implies lack of individuality. You just can't have it all ...

You're looking for an absolute answer where there was probably a committee decision, and it was probably a heated debate that ended up with a final (but unpopular on all sides) decision.

Look on the bright side; the FL-400 is typically less expensive, and filters nearly as well as the FL-820. Just take your stash of 820's and trade them in; most places will exchange them if they're in good shape.

 

[RWEST]

Quote:
You're looking for an absolute answer where there was probably a committee decision, and it was probably a heated debate that ended up with a final (but unpopular on all sides) decision.
Kinda' like the monkees and banana - "that's the way we've always done it" scenario, I guess.

Fl-1A; FL-820S; FL-400S; FL-2005 (there were probably others for passenger cars that I'm not aware of). Just trying to figure out what possible economics could drive the need for that many different filters.

I remember stocking nothing but FL-1A's for 20-30 years for our company Ford vehicles. Life sure was a lot simpler then.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: racer12306

Thats funny stuff. Is the 3.5 a varient of the old 3.0 vulcan?


its a duratech, so its DOHC. all the 3.5's take the FL-400S.

o and i think its lame that ford made the FL-2005 obsolete, and r/b the FL-400S

 

[beanoil]

My wife and I just test drove an X. Not bad, typical "Ford" fit and feel. We like the Edge better. Won't buy one though until it's available with the Flexfuel option.

 

[Chris142]

Jeep did something dumb like that too. The older 4.0L engines in the Cherokee's use a 20mm thread. When they began to use that engine in the Wranglers they went to the 3/4x16 thread.

 

[Gary Allan]

That was when they went to GM drivetrains. The 2.8V6 Cherokee's and they made the 4 banger to the GM V6 bolt pattern.

The 4.2 had a Chevy V8 bolt pattern ..and so did the 2.5 Pontiac I4 that they used for a year or two.

Now (well, not NOW), the 4 banger and the 4.0 can't share anything. The trans is different, the input for the t-case is different (due to different trans - except for the auto, iirc). It makes a swap much more expensive than it needs to be.

The jeeps in those years that were of AMC origin can be converted back to 3/4-16 with a simple nipple. The block threads weren't changed.

 

[blueiedgod]

Not to rain on your parade: I have a 1983 Honda Magna Motorcycle, 1988 Honda Prelude, and 2005 Honda CR-V all use the same filter.

 

[Gary Allan]

Prideful show off ...hummmph!

 

[RWEST]

Originally Posted By: blueiedgod
Not to rain on your parade: I have a 1983 Honda Magna Motorcycle, 1988 Honda Prelude, and 2005 Honda CR-V all use the same filter.

And, if memory serves, that same filter you're talking about (I think they're the ones shown at [5] on this list) will also fit my my John Deere tractor, brother #1's J-D tractor and ST1300 motorcycle, and brother #2's J-D and Kubota tractors and HIS ST1300 MC. They gloat at me all the time.

 

[nthach]

And I've got a 1991 Lexus LS400, 2005 Toyota Sienna, and a 2009 Prius that could use a 90915-YZZD3 OEM/PH3614 Fram-sized filter.

 

[Black_Thunder]

My t-bird, my 98 Explorer, my dad's f150, my mom's mystique, and my brothers contour, all use the 820-s


my 92 Explorer, my dad's ranger, my dad's old f-150, and both of my F150's all use the Fl-1A filter.



guess you'll know whats on my shelf for oil filters

 

[scoobie]

used to be good old ph8a on everything. now that i've gone japanese they all use bosch 3323 mitsubishi and subaru, AND the ford focus also takes 3323. the 2000 focus was the last us car i'll ever buy. runs good, but the a/c falls apart every two years, the paint aint worth cr$@p, and it simply lacks quality.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: nthach
And I've got a 1991 Lexus LS400, 2005 Toyota Sienna, and a 2009 Prius that could use a 90915-YZZD3 OEM/PH3614 Fram-sized filter.

That is what is great about Toyotas. At first they all used a Motorcraft FL1A, and later:

1 filter for 4 cylinder cars
1 filter for all 6 cylinder engines and 4 cylinder trucks.

Or something close to that.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: scoobie
used to be good old ph8a on everything.


I had a 1964 Renault R8 with a thimble sized overprice filter. It was a US made Fram put in a Renault box in France and shipped back here. The base looked familiar, it was the same thread and gasket as a PH8A, so I switched to PH8As. They looked king of funny on an 850CC engine.

My 1969 Datsun 510 has some oddball number full size spin-on filter. A Ph8A was a cheap replacement for it and worked for the 160k miles I had the car.

 

[Gary Allan]

Filters were a mystery for most users. I bought a Permacool dual mount back in 1977. At that time it was also a FRAM part number. It said in the notes in the catalog "for use with the HP1 (or was it HP2) filters". So I had to order 6 of them @ $16 each. When they arrived (both in the same order) ..we figured out that they were identical to a $2-3 PH8A.

We had a DeLorean owner on the board here that paid like $10 for a few filters on line. He was happy to find the mystery of the black cylinder solved.

 

[racer12306]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: nthach
And I've got a 1991 Lexus LS400, 2005 Toyota Sienna, and a 2009 Prius that could use a 90915-YZZD3 OEM/PH3614 Fram-sized filter.

That is what is great about Toyotas. At first they all used a Motorcraft FL1A, and later:

1 filter for 4 cylinder cars
1 filter for all 6 cylinder engines and 4 cylinder trucks.

Or something close to that.


Add in that it will fit [censored] near every dodge/chrysler built.