Why no anger at Mobile, just like Castrol?

Messages
15,078
Location
Canada
I'm NOT posting this just to stir up trouble, I am really curious about people thoughts on this: Back in the mid-1970's, both Mobil and Amsoil came out with high-quality, 100% synthetic oils that could survive long drains, even on the engines of the day. They both advertised their oil as being 25,000 mile oils, and from peoples memories and experiences here, it seems that the oils did survive this service in many cars. But there were some problems with dino-sludged engines of the day having problems with these new high-tech oils. Amsoils response was to bring out a flush to change engines over to their product, but they stuck by their claim that the oil was designed to be used for 25,000 miles. Mobil, on the other hand, recommended people start following manufacturers recommended change intervals, which was often 3,000 miles, or at lest a lot less than 25k miles. So even though Mobil was still making a high-quality oil that could survive 25,000 miles; they were getting people to change it ridiculously early to avoid problems. People got amzing results changing this high-quality oil frequently, and more importantly, Mobile made a lot of money off this arrangement, and became the name in synthetic oils. Amsoil is still a respected name in synthetic oil, but because they stuck to the fact that their oil would last for 25,000 miles, instead of catering to the prevailing 3k mentality, they are a much smaller comapany. Amsoil and Mobil still make high-quality synthetic oils, and tests have shown that they are fairly equal in performance and service life. Amsoil still claims their oils are good for 25k, and even 35k in some cases. Mobil, on the other hand, has only recently started to claim its 'EP' oil is good to 15k miles. So Mobil is making massive amounts of money from people who change their products anywhere from 3k to 15k miles; when both products could probably go at least 20k, if not 25k, just like Amsoil. I know that Mobil is somewhat cheaper than Amsoil, but not cheaper enough to cover this blatent rip-off. People on this site rant and rave about Castrol, and how it is 'ripping people off' by charging synthetic prices for a group III hydrocrack and making huge amounts of money doing it. Buy why, oh why, is no-one just as mad at Mobil for making a fortune over the past 25 or so years for getting people to change a perfectly good synthetic oil early, when all along they could have stuck to their 25,000 mile claim, like Amsoil has for all these years? Just seems to me like a bit of hypocrisy.....! [I dont know] Please note - I am not a Mobile hater. Have no experience with their products. This is just an observation of the situation from the 1970's to the present.
 

SSQ

Messages
209
Location
OR
Their marketing and engineering department probably egg each other for this exact reason. I see a few reasons: The goal of companies is usually to scoop in cash now, in the future, and in the further future. This being the first reason. It allows them to sell more products, which allows for a more competitive proce. Second reason would be as you mentioned, to avoid trouble. We all drive differently. Go cities like Taipei, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Guangdong... etc. The cars that does 3000miles without changing oil will just die. Why? traffic, traffic, traffic. It's bad on oil. Traffic was so bad in Bangkok that I can walk over to the 7-11 to get a slushy and come back to find the traffic still static. Third reason, economy. Imagine you are a toyota dealership and mobil coming up to you and offer you their oil so you can get to change oil for people less frequently. Will you be willing to do that? Extending the drain interval by 2k miles to 5000 is one thing. 20000 miles? you're loosing quite a lot of business. You see much dealerships offering Amsoil oil changes? Sadly, it's just how things work these days. Just be glad that we are well informed, thanks to BITOG.
 
Messages
2,724
Location
Herndon, Virginia
Besides the Stealers, quick change joints, and garages in general. I'm the first to admit I ran M1 for 168 THOUSAND miles on my last car doing 3K M1 OCI, and the first 150K of THAT on Fram-Cans with the grippy-tips. Interestingly enough, when I started reading here, I changed the routine, and the car started falling apart.. Thanks BITOG! [Cheers!] But I digress. Get mad at Mobil all you want, but they insist on sticking with the manufacturer's spec, right? The (apparently unnecessary) 3K oci is as much the fault of the folks that DO oci for money who pound the gullible into submission. I'll blame my being suckered on inertia. A lifetime of 3K OCI, and all of it unnecessary after, what, about 1985 or so?. Tough habit to break, but what a lot of wasted money all those years and miles, not to mention good oil, eh? The Frams? No waste at all! [I dont know]
 
Messages
1,432
Location
Virginia
quote:
Originally posted by addyguy: I'm NOT posting this just to stir up trouble, I am really curious about people thoughts on this: Back in the mid-1970's, both Mobil and Amsoil came out with high-quality, 100% synthetic oils that could survive long drains, even on the engines of the day. They both advertised their oil as being 25,000 mile oils, and from peoples memories and experiences here, it seems that the oils did survive this service in many cars. But there were some problems with dino-sludged engines of the day having problems with these new high-tech oils. Amsoils response was to bring out a flush to change engines over to their product, but they stuck by their claim that the oil was designed to be used for 25,000 miles. Mobil, on the other hand, recommended people start following manufacturers recommended change intervals, which was often 3,000 miles, or at lest a lot less than 25k miles. So even though Mobil was still making a high-quality oil that could survive 25,000 miles; they were getting people to change it ridiculously early to avoid problems. People got amzing results changing this high-quality oil frequently, and more importantly, Mobile made a lot of money off this arrangement, and became the name in synthetic oils. Amsoil is still a respected name in synthetic oil, but because they stuck to the fact that their oil would last for 25,000 miles, instead of catering to the prevailing 3k mentality, they are a much smaller comapany. Amsoil and Mobil still make high-quality synthetic oils, and tests have shown that they are fairly equal in performance and service life. Amsoil still claims their oils are good for 25k, and even 35k in some cases. Mobil, on the other hand, has only recently started to claim its 'EP' oil is good to 15k miles. So Mobil is making massive amounts of money from people who change their products anywhere from 3k to 15k miles; when both products could probably go at least 20k, if not 25k, just like Amsoil. I know that Mobil is somewhat cheaper than Amsoil, but not cheaper enough to cover this blatent rip-off. People on this site rant and rave about Castrol, and how it is 'ripping people off' by charging synthetic prices for a group III hydrocrack and making huge amounts of money doing it. Buy why, oh why, is no-one just as mad at Mobil for making a fortune over the past 25 or so years for getting people to change a perfectly good synthetic oil early, when all along they could have stuck to their 25,000 mile claim, like Amsoil has for all these years? Just seems to me like a bit of hypocrisy.....! [I dont know] Please note - I am not a Mobile hater. Have no experience with their products. This is just an observation of the situation from the 1970's to the present.
Something to keep on mind is that Amsoil has revised their '25K oil' recommendations to 15K/1yr for severe service...right in line with the new Mobil1 EP oil. Mobil's just being a bit more conservative. As for the 'regular' Mobil1, can't really blame them for recommending it for manufacturer's intervals because that is what owners have to adhere to, so not to run afoul of their automaker. And I don't blame Mobil for not going against the automakers because that is partly where their bread is buttered, and they don't want to deal with any cases where they have to pick up when a warrantee claim is denied. At least Mobil doesn't recommend the same oil be drained at manufacturer's intervals while under warrantee and then longer after the warrantee is up. That would be hypocritical / gutless in my book.
 
Messages
694
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Anyone care to venture a guess as to what percentage of people buy Amsoil or M1 EP and change it at 3k anyways just for that extra "warm and fuzzy" feeling? I have no hard data but I'm guessing it's not a trivial amount.
 
Messages
1,967
Location
Kitsap, WA
Of course all this assumes that 25k was an reasonable OCI to start with? Right or wrong, I'm not aware of any auto manufacture that would advise going that long? IMHO, Amsoil's marketing of extended oci was foremost to justify it's high cost to the "prospect" downlines in the marketing network. Mobil went a different route and put it on the shelf at almost 5 times the price of dino! and just claimed it was better. The consumers equated expensive with "best" or better, and took right to it.
 
Messages
3,084
Location
Cincinnati
I wish I would have done an UOA on my Amsoil 0w30 over the past three years before switching to M1. I ran 18-20k every year. Changed the filter at 6 months/12.5k miles religiously, and always kept it topped off. Probably re-added in 1.5 quarts in one full year.
 
quote:
Originally posted by olympic: Anyone care to venture a guess as to what percentage of people buy Amsoil or M1 EP and change it at 3k anyways just for that extra "warm and fuzzy" feeling? I have no hard data but I'm guessing it's not a trivial amount.
You are right... I'll admit that I used Mobil 1 EP and changed it 3,000 miles or LESS (PRE BITOG...) for the first 30,000 miles on my vehicle. Nice and shiney engine tho - and that "warm and fuzzy" feeling. [Big Grin] Growing up with grandparents and parents who were mechanics (never followed in their footsteps) - the 3,000 mile oil change has become a way of life so that now with high quality oils (GC, Mobil, Amsoil) - going past 3,000 feels like a crime. I'm at 4,000 oci miles for the first time in my life and it feels horrible [Razz]
 
Messages
56
Location
Georgia
As an early Mobil user (1980 in a 5 cyl. Audi 5000) I do believe the manufacturers underestimated the effect of additive depletion, thinking the superior base oils would be enough to extend the OCIs to 25K. In my case, it was all academic anyway. The engine soon started consuming oil through the valve seals at a rate of 1 qt every 500 miles (yes, hundred). I had a real world OCI of 2500 miles for 5 qts. It seems that those Audi/VW engines were not synthetic friendly in those days. After having all the seals replaced, I returned to Castrol 20W-50.
 
Messages
43,667
Location
'Stralia
I've had Mobil technicians, once they are certain that I have an "older" (1990) vehicle, and am a decent maintainer tell me "12 months regardless of mileage" a couple of times. They have to stick to "manufacturer's" OCI so that you maintain your warranty.
 
Messages
1,203
Location
Oregon
quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: Why hasn't the 3K OCI gone away in the U.S like it did here in Oz?
LOL, Some people here in the US never change there oil, more than a fair amount of people in the US think nothing about 12,000 - 15,000 miles on cheap dino oil. I have seen this going on since the 70s. I would not be surprised if more than 50% of the drivers in the US are completely clueless on vehicle maintenance. I once told a coworker in a BMW she needed to have the oil changed. She looked at me and strange and said "Its a BMW I do not need to change the oil!!" She had 35,000 miles on it since new and had never changed the oil. Another coworker in on the conversation with the above BMW lady. Was stating he had 78,000 miles on his car and found no need to change the oil.
 
Messages
3,833
Location
NEPA
In my experience, Mercedes owners think not of maintenance. Their cars are "special" and "don't need nothing" and run "forever". Umm, ok.
 

oli

Messages
61
Location
new england
quote:
Originally posted by addyguy: People got amzing results changing this high-quality oil frequently, and more importantly, Mobile made a lot of money off this arrangement, and became the name in synthetic oils. Amsoil is still a respected name in synthetic oil, but because they stuck to the fact that their oil would last for 25,000 miles, instead of catering to the prevailing 3k mentality, they are a much smaller comapany.
That's why amsoil is a smaller company? My thoughts are that you have stated a boat load of opinions as if they are facts. I say, prove that you are not a mobil hater by using the EP product for 2 15k oci's.
 
Messages
1,967
Location
Kitsap, WA
quote:
Why hasn't the 3K OCI gone away in the U.S like it did here in Oz?
I'd say it's been long gone for many years, but the rep still lingers because it's fashionable to point out how evil and wasteful us N. Americans are. Heck 1/2 the cars are owned by females, probably another 1/4 by metrosexual men who don't know a dipstick from a plugwire? I'd bet on average our oci are at least equal to the rest of world. We do have an oil industry and cottage oil change industry that probably does still promote the 3000 oci. Just advertising, everyone ignores it for the most part. Think most people who maintain there cars go by the manual for the most part, which is usually more like 7500 in most cases. In my personal case I split my driving and riding up between so many vehicles that no one tallys up the miles quick. So my yearly license tab renewals are reminders to think about an annual oil change. Call me old fashion, but it's gettin changed regardless of the miles at one year.
 
Messages
3,558
Location
SE Pa
1. I don't understand how, on a lubrication specialty forum of all places, people don't know how to spell MOBIL. As in EXXON MOBIL, the largest corporation on earth. Mobile is a town, or what one hangs over an infant's crib. Not to jump on you in particular, but about 1/3 of the Mobil Oil posts around here are misspelled "Mobile", and I don't get it. The frequency of it in some posts belies a typo. It's printed in large letters on every bottle - M O B I L - if people bother to look. Rant over. 2. Mobil was a petroleum goliath long before Amsoil was even a thought. And they got that way and are that way from selling gasoline, not motor oil. That they had/have a gigantic coast-to-coast distribution network of filling stations and a multi-million advertising budget had more to do with the greater success of M1 than the change interval. There was a time when folks primarily bought their oil at the gas station, and that greatly helped companies like Mobil. That was still the case to some degree in the early '70s when synthetics first hit the mass market in force.
 
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