With a superior base oil (Group II+) and a custom blended additive pak (as opposed to a premixed one) why isn't Pennzoil the hands down choice over other regular dino oils? (5w30/10w30) I am not a Pennzoil bigot, I had always heard that Pennzoil sludged up engines.
I have been using Quaker State 5w30 in my 1997 Grand Caravan since I bought it (110,000 miles, 5000mi OCI) and am looking to change to something better. Pennzoil, Chevron/Havoline all look like fine oils but Pennzoil seems to be superior. I'm no oil expert and would like to know from those who are why would Chevron/Havoline (or other) dino oils be reccomended over Pennzoil?
.....................Doug
Why isn't Pennzoil the clear dino choice?
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Pennzoil is the most popular dino acording to Amkeer's 5 page thread.
Pz, QS, and Valvoline all have high every-day prices for someone who is buying best value dino oil.
GTX is .90 less for a 5 quart jug.
Like Andyfish said......part of the initial attraction to Chevron/Havoline is the lower price. On a 5 qt. change one could save enough money to pay for a Supertech filter.
There have been some UOA reports that show virtually no wear and the oil holding up very well.....with Chevron, Havoline. There have been similar reports with Castrol GTX and even Citgo Superguard. Point is, there simply is no one clear choice for all motors, conditions and drivers. Being a "technically" superior product (and I'm not convinced it is) really doesn't mean much if another product can produce as good or better results for less cost. I'm not knocking Pennzoil....not by any means. I too think it is an excellent motor oil and wouldn't hesitate to use it. Just that there are other choices that will do the job equally well for less cost.
Delo and Delvac are cheaper still yet and will out perform Pensoil! It is hard to not like Delo or Delvac as well! Havoline and CHevron Supreme are also cheaper and do great in UOA. Luckily for everyone it is getting easier and easier to get a good oil OTC.
Because it's not so simple as one oil. As you will learn here, it's what oil is best for your engine, your driving conditions, your budget, your weather..........
Pennzoil is good and is popular, though.
Somebody please explain to me the psychology of needing to save $1 to $3 dollars when servicing a $25,000 dollar +/- vehicle?
I agree..alot of post on the forums talk about saving money...a dollar or two..I would pay five dollars more knowing this oil will protect my engine the best....I do not consider price at all when purchasing oil....I just want the best product. I like to save money also, but not at the cost of new engine.
I only speak for myself. But its not about saving a buck or two. If you can spend 1.26, 1.62, 1.82, or 5.00 and in a 200,000 mile interval Achieve almost identical lack of wear on your engine. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend anything other than the 1.26, unless of course you like the way the silver colored bottle looks better than the blue colored one. Like the man said above, if nothing else the savings will pay for a supertech or part of a filter of your choosing.....or a beer. ![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
[ May 16, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: dustyjoe1 ]
[ May 16, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: dustyjoe1 ]
A couple of the posts above said that they chose Havoline or Chevron Supreme or even Citgo over Pennzoil because of lower price and because the fact that these oils are all going to protect and lubricate their engines almost the same. I happen to agree.
Pennzoil with Purebase
Chevron Supreme with IsoSyn
Conoco HydroClear
All Group II oils with gimmickie names that are the same thing.
Conclusion - I shop based on lowest price and use the difference to offset the price of my Motorcraft filter, $2.97 everyday at wallyworld...
quote:Delo 400 vs. Delvac 1300 vs. Pennzoil Long-Life?? You really think they'll outperform Long-Life by any noticable margin?
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: Delo and Delvac are cheaper still yet and will out perform Pensoil! It is hard to not like Delo or Delvac as well! Havoline and CHevron Supreme are also cheaper and do great in UOA. Luckily for everyone it is getting easier and easier to get a good oil OTC.
quote:While the three oils you mentioned all use base oil that is made using Chevron technology, they are all hardly "the same thing." The additive chemistry is what differentiates these oils. For example, Pennzoil is the only one that uses a proprietary version of Shell's "ShellVis" VI improver which has an industry-wide reputation as being the most shear stable VI improver made.
Originally posted by FordSVTGuy: Pennzoil with Purebase Chevron Supreme with IsoSyn Conoco HydroClear All Group II oils with gimmickie names that are the same thing.
Covering several points. Before I found this board, I was a long time Pennzoil user, but had little to justify it other than it was a respected brand name and readily available. I am sure there are many other people using it without any hard data to back their choice. It is also appealing to those that figure the most expensive oil must be the best. I have seen enough UOA's and VOA's here to be confident about using it or several cheaper brands. Back when Shell, Quaker State, and Pennzoil were separate companies, the price of Pennzoil reflected the competition. It seems Shell is positioning Pennzoil to exploit those willing to pay top dollar for what they think is the best and those that wish to keep using the same readily available product they always have. For the more price conscious they 2 other brands. They also have a range of synthetics and specialties, SUV, winter formulation, high mileage, etc.
My last oil change tested my loyalty when I ended up paying $18 at Wally's for enough oil. In the end, I decided the other stuff wasn't that much cheaper, and wasn't sure I could find it cheaper than Pennzoil next time, or even find it at all, or at least not without running around a bunch.
Delo or Delvac may be fine oils, attractively priced; but Wally's didn't have anything in stock less than 15W- which is wholly inappropriate for my gasoline engines and moderate short trips.
Bottom line? I am willing to spend extra on a product if I can see a feature that benefits my car or truck. On the other hand, I see no reason to pay a premium for something that is about the same. On filters, if I had my choice of ST, a $3 OEM, Purolator, Hastings, STP, etc., I would take the OEM. Otherwise, ST. I cringe about all the years I was paying a dollar more for a FRAM over ST.
quote:Needing to save a couple bucks doesn't have to be the driving factor and for most here, most likely isn't imperative. But why spend any more than one has to in order to achieve the results one is looking for? Overpaying simply to buy the more expensive product doesn't make a heckuva lot of sense to me but it does to some and that's fine.
Originally posted by doitmyself: Somebody please explain to me the psychology of needing to save $1 to $3 dollars when servicing a $25,000 dollar +/- vehicle?
quote:But how do you know said oil is protecting the best? We all just want "the best oil" for our application and needs but buying because something costs more is hardly making an informed decision.
Originally posted by Raskm: I agree..alot of post on the forums talk about saving money...a dollar or two..I would pay five dollars more knowing this oil will protect my engine the best....I do not consider price at all when purchasing oil....I just want the best product. I like to save money also, but not at the cost of new engine.
No comment on Pennzoil other than to say I think it's a quality oil. I do wonder about the obsession some people have with saving $.15 on a quart of oil though. It reminds me of a guy I know. He'll spend 2 hours on the phone to save $.65 on his cell bill, or drive 30 miles to save $.02 on a gallon of gas or $.25 on a gallon of milk.
My time's worth something, and obviously a lot more than he thinks his is worth...
Here is the thing to consider. If a $5.88 a gallon jug of Delvac 15W40 protects my car just fine for 6 months why spend $32 a gallon on oil for 6 months? In the winter I need cold cranking and pumping number that I can not get for $5.88 a gallon. So I spend more for 5W40,0W30 synthetics.
I have been a die hard synthetic man since the late 1980's. SO for me to even go back to non-synthetic is quite a leap of faith. I am going to test 15W40 conventional oils then synthetics of various weight 0W30,5W30,10W30,5W40 and maybe 15W50.
If conventional oil will do the trick then why spend the big bucks for no marginal gain! I will not push my drains past about 6-7 months so extended drainn is not too important. All I care about is moderately low wear numbers and a clean engine!
I have seen so many UOA on this site with conventional oil that were excellent that I am willing to explore it a bit. It does help that so many oils are no available that are of good quality. Schaffers is out of sight!!! I do not think I have seen any bad UOA of Schaffers other then really long 10,000 mile OCI.
My local Wal Mart has Pennzoil in 5qt jugs that work out to $1.35 a quart. Havoline is $1.26. The only place I can find Chevron is TSC for $1.28 (10w30 only), A local oil distributor can get me cases of Chevron 5w30 for $1.46 a quart. People that are getting these oils for .99 and .69 are lucky. That is not happening in Omaha that I can find. We don't have Pep Boys or Kragen either. If price were equal (which they pretty much are here) why wouldn't you buy the most 'technically' superior oil? And if you wouldn't choose Pennzoil what is it about the other brand that makes it your choice?.....Doug
quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All Group II oils with gimmickie names that are the same thing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wonder how the folks at Lubrizol, Oronite, Infineum, and Ethyl would respond to this statement? Actually I was saying that the three oils I listed all had group II base oils that are manufactured using the same technology and yielding the same quality product. Yet they all have some gimmikie name to extol the greatness of their base oil, such as Purebase or IsoSyn. Take a stroll through the UOA section and you will see that dino 5W-30 oils sheer. It is a fact of life. The extra money is not really buying you anything additional. From my business experience, I believe that the higher price is based in part on the recovery of marketing expenses. Pennzoil spends a lot on ads...ect I can sum my opinion up is this simple thought: Go with any of the SL oils that use a Group II base oil and if you happen to be frugal, pick one based on low prices...
![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon}
PS your car won't know the difference. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
quote:Well...because after spending $25,000 for one, even two, vehicles, then insuring them, we have NO money left...
Somebody please explain to me the psychology of needing to save $1 to $3 dollars when servicing a $25,000 dollar +/- vehicle?
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