Why is Momentum Theory so hard to grasp RE: winter driving?

[14Accent]

Plain and simple: a body in motion tends to stay in motion. This afternoon, the Twin Cities got dumped with 6"+ of thick, heavy snow in a matter of 6 hours. We're now expecting a second round overnight which will bring an additional 4".

I couldn't believe the amount of people I saw stuck in the ditch. What is so hard about paying attention to your vehicle and surroundings?

When the weather gets like this, I RARELY stop for stop signs. I RARELY attempt to use ANY major freeway unless absolutely necessary. I plan my route around known inclines and sharp turns. My goal is to keep my car in motion at a pace that's both safe while providing the momentum needed to overcome 99% of snow drifts and the like. I can't remember the last time I got stuck, and that includes 2 winters driving a Panther with 18" low profile snow tires on the rear only.

 

[Passport1]

Physics. Not taught in school anymore.

 

[ctechbob]

Physics. Not taught in school anymore.

Physics/Common Sense/Personal Responsibility/Thelistgoesonforever, not taught in schools anymore.

 

[MNgopher]

A general expectation by the traveling public that a personal snowplow be in front of their vehicle getting the road surface to dry bare pavement immediately (oh, and do it without any salt too) so that they don't have any responsibility to moderate their driving for conditions or actually prepare their vehicle for road conditions nor plan or prepare for longer travel times, etc... let alone any understanding of driving control.

And I say that working for a very large agency responsible for large roadways here... including some activities that interface with snow and ice control....

To a certain extent we are victims of our own success - when we do snow and ice control well, the traveling public decides it doesn't have to prepare, and takes its anger out on us when things happen...

 

[chemman]

Because I have someplace "important" to go to, so the rest of you need to get out of my way and stay off the roads...

 

[ctechbob]

You should see what happens down here in the south when we get snow. EVERYONE with a vehicle that has AWD/4WD is in the ditch because they magically think that AWD/4WD means they can just drive like normal and can go anywhere at any time.

'Everyone' might be an exaggeration, but it sure seems like it.

I've had employees tell me 'I'll be able to get to work, my car/truck is 4wd'. Ok, but there's a 1/2" layer of ice down and 4wd won't fix that, and your truck has summer tires, and you have no clue how to drive in it.

There have been times when I've been watching the forecast and they're predicting some gnarly stuff that I've ordered employees to bring a change of clothes and toiletries in case the other shift can't make it in. In that case, we have to stay until relieved, you can't just leave the facility unmanned. We do have a couple Hummers that I can use to go fetch people, but I really don't want to drive around in the cold in those things.

 

[skyactiv]

I don't feel sorry for the cigarette smoking morons that only go out in a snowy mess because they're running out of cigs.

 

[Dave Sherman]

You should see what happens down here in the south when we get snow. EVERYONE with a vehicle that has AWD/4WD is in the ditch because they magically think that AWD/4WD means they can just drive like normal and can go anywhere at any time.

'Everyone' might be an exaggeration, but it sure seems like it.

I've had employees tell me 'I'll be able to get to work, my car/truck is 4wd'. Ok, but there's a 1/2" layer of ice down and 4wd won't fix that, and your truck has summer tires, and you have no clue how to drive in it.

There have been times when I've been watching the forecast and they're predicting some gnarly stuff that I've ordered employees to bring a change of clothes and toiletries in case the other shift can't make it in. In that case, we have to stay until relieved, you can't just leave the facility unmanned.

Truth! Even here where snow is a regular thing, I'll see the Jeep Grand Yuppies (that's what I call them) flying by at normal speed when highways are covered with snow, only to find them spun out in the median later down the road. Even had one such person tell me "well, I have 4 wheel drive, so that means I have 4 wheel braking, too so I can stop better".

 

[skyactiv]

This was fun on Xmas eve.

 

[eljefino]

Kids don't ride bikes anymore. Doing this helps calibrate their "internal gyroscopes" so they can feel in their butts when things start getting loose.

I delivered newspapers on a bike for 4 years in all sorts of weather. And burned through a bunch of tires doing kid stuff.

 

[Leo99]

When I was 17 or 18, I went out my first time in the snow to a nearby school parking lot and did a lot of donuts and braking maneuvers to see how the car would respond. I don't think there is any substitute for that. Today, I avoid driving in the snow as much as possible. It's horrible. People everywhere, traffic, people in ditches. Ugh.

 

[benjy]

driving in snow is a bit of learned art + many older people like myself learned that SNOW tyres are needed in Penna winters! i remember removing my 4 snow tyres too early while driving up to Red Rock aka Rickets Glen State park, thank you PennDot as they plowed + cindered as i sat on the roadside!! they took good care of that area that recorded state cold records just over the mountain in Lopez + got xtra snow as well

 

[ctechbob]

Kids don't ride bikes anymore. Doing this helps calibrate their "internal gyroscopes" so they can feel in their butts when things start getting loose.

I delivered newspapers on a bike for 4 years in all sorts of weather. And burned through a bunch of tires doing kid stuff.

I was lucky enough to grow up on dirtbikes and had a 5hp gocart that would let me terrorize the dirt roads around our house. Did lots of sliding and spinning in that thing, so I knew a little about car control by the time I started driving.

Of course, I got thrown off that thing more times than I can count, never wearing a helmet, can't do that these days.

 

[skyactiv]

 

[Blueshound]

In my opinion it's got nothing to do with personal responsibility; maybe a little bit of common sense. Physics? You've got to be kidding! Driving in snow just requires practice, good tires, and a lot of counterintuitive knowledge.

When snow only comes once a year (or less) there's little opportunity to practice. Many states don't inspect vehicles for safe tires (or anything else for that matter). Driver's training and testing in every state are woefully inadequate to teach cornering, braking, or skid control even on dry pavement, never mind snow.

Unless you are lucky enough to have a really good driving instructor or skilled parents, these days it's almost inevitable to have no idea what to do when you lose traction. When I was a teen in the 80's when it snowed we did donuts, used the hand brake, etc. in empty parking lots. I think I that gave us a lot of insight about how the car reacts in snow. Now thanks to all the idiots on YouTube "drifting" on public streets, kids can't even do that anymore.

 

[stormgol]

winter driving comes with experience. many people have very mild winters or almost no winter. so i can understand why they are not that good at driving in winter conditions. winters last up to and sometimes over 6 months where i live. i have a lot of experience driving in all sorts of winter conditions for extended period of times. i am not better, just way more experienced. it is natural for me. i have done this since i am 16 years old. and i like driving in winter. driving in winter storms and blizzards is something i like very much. it pushes your driving abilities to the limits. one mistake can be fatal. if you live in a place where winter conditions are present, get good winter tires. they can save your life.

 

[dfarr67]

I work for highways- people use that momentum right into the backs of the snowplows, three so far this year. Not much surprises me anymore- you just hope your not in front of these losers.

 

[andrew_j]

Too many easy buttons like winter tires, all wheel drive , excessive road salt/sanding, school/work cancellations that make it hard to really learn in terrible driving conditions .

My wife and I both learned how to drive in New England with $500 fwd junkers with cruddy tires . We just drive carefully and “softly” to not knock the car out of it zen by little inputs braking , steering or acceleration.

My wife is required to commute 40 miles to hospital job through any condition.

 

[Slick3914]

Physics and gravity always win.

 

[stormgol]

Too many easy buttons like winter tires, all wheel drive , excessive road salt/sanding, school/work cancellations that make it hard to really learn in terrible driving conditions .

My wife and I both learned how to drive in New England with $500 fwd junkers with cruddy tires . We just drive carefully and “softly” to not knock the car out of it zen by little inputs braking , steering or acceleration.

My wife is required to commute 40 miles to hospital job through any condition.

winter tires are not easy buttons. they are simply the appropriate tools for the conditions.