Why is mid grade more expensive

[wolf_06]

Here in New Brunswick Canada, at Shell the pump say's on a sticker, regular 10% ethanol, mid 5%, premium no ethanol. This makes sense to me, pure gas is more expensive and less diluted with ethanol.

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted by wolf_06

Here in New Brunswick Canada, at Shell the pump say's on a sticker, regular 10% ethanol, mid 5%, premium no ethanol. This makes sense to me, pure gas is more expensive and less diluted with ethanol.

Yes, that's the way it works in Canada. Regular is 87 and has 10% ethanol. Premium is 91 and has no ethanol. Mid grade is a 50:50 mix of Regular and Premium so it's 89 and has 5% ethanol.

 

[NO2]

Bad idea to purchase a car that requires premium. But those are always luxury models, and people who buy them can afford the difference. Most will run on regular anyway, albeit at slightly reduced power.

 

[OilStasher]

Originally Posted by Audios

I always assumed it was price gouging. My buddy goes 20 reg, 20 super when he fills.

I sure hope he fills with the premium first... Yeah, midgrade is irrelevant for 99% of vehicles, and is basically a profit scam at this point. But a scam is only a scam if people actually fall for it.

 

[TTK]

Mid-grade gasoline is a rip-off. Mid-grade is 2 parts regular(87) and one part premium(93), such as,(87+87+93)/3 = 89, and is usually priced mid-way between regular and premium, as if it is a 50/50 mixture. But it isn't. A 50/50 mixture would give you an octane of 90.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

One Chain around here eliminated mid grade and swtiched those pumps to E85. So now you have 87, E85 and Diesel.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Here is what a top refiner says: GASOLINE SPECIFICATIONS

Quote

Every gallon of CountryMark 90 PLUS is refined to exceed customer expectations. Whether you've got a boat, 2-cycle engine or a seasonally driven vehicle, this ethanol-free fuel is easy on your engine and delivers the most efficient power - leading to more miles per gallon on the road and more hours per gallon for small engines. In addition to being ethanol free, CountryMark's 90 PLUS gasoline also features a TOP TIER detergency package. Additional fuel detergency keeps engines running smoothly, improves engine performance and reduces vehicle emissions. The higher octane rating of 90 works hand-in-hand with the optimized detergency package to deliver a fuel that keeps engines running smoothly and more efficiently. For a complete list of CountryMark's fuel stations that carry ethanol-free gasoline, visit the CountryMark retail locator map and click the boxes labeled "ethanol-free" and "show all stations."

 

[OilStasher]

Originally Posted by TTK

Mid-grade gasoline is a rip-off. Mid-grade is 2 parts regular(87) and one part premium(93), such as,(87+87+93)/3 = 89, and is usually priced mid-way between regular and premium, as if it is a 50/50 mixture. But it isn't. A 50/50 mixture would give you an octane of 90.

Maybe in your neck of the woods. Our premium is 91. So it should be 50/50 here.

 

[oldhp]

There is a VP station close to my house and I kept hearing their premium is 100% gasoline. Well turns out I've know this guy for 30yrs. So I drove over and asked him. Nope, no 100% gasoline in the premium. He has 2 tanks under ground, 87 and 93 octane, both 10% ethanol. As it turns out where his station is located the county mandates 10% ethanol in all types of fuel, 87,89 and 93. Has to do with taxes, not the EPA believe it or not. He pays taxes on 100% of his fuel. There some other counties that only pay taxes on the unleaded gasoline only. 5000 gals 87 octane, 10% ethanol. In other county, they pay taxes on 4500 gals only. He said a lot of the counties are in the process of changing this so the station owners pay on full load not just 90% of it. Money Honey............Nothing to do with "clean air". Amazing......

 

[Rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL

One Chain around here eliminated mid grade and swtiched those pumps to E85. So now you have 87, E85 and Diesel.

87 and e85 can be blended into most any octane. Most stations around here have at most 3 tanks yet have the following on the pump. 87 88 89 91 E85

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by ecotourist

Originally Posted by wolf_06

Here in New Brunswick Canada, at Shell the pump say's on a sticker, regular 10% ethanol, mid 5%, premium no ethanol. This makes sense to me, pure gas is more expensive and less diluted with ethanol.

Yes, that's the way it works in Canada. Regular is 87 and has 10% ethanol. Premium is 91 and has no ethanol. Mid grade is a 50:50 mix of Regular and Premium so it's 89 and has 5% ethanol.

As a practical matter it makes more sense to use ethanol in higher octane fuels because the ethanol has an extremely high blending octane. However, as a math exercise, if the various refinery streams can be mixed around, it might be possible to create ethanol free fuel in any octane rating. At least around here, there's so much demand for 91 octane that all fuel contains ethanol. Having ordinary pumps with ethanol free fuel would make things very difficult because there would probably be fuel that's not used as a finished product. Making fuel is really about using up as much of it as possible without having to store it long term or sell it for something other than motor fuel.

 

[Dufus2]

Its my understanding the gas is the same and blended with an additive to modify the octane rating.

 

[mattwithcats]

My understanding of the East Coast gas is 85 octane is moved through the Colonial Pipeline. This is pure gas, no additives, to prevent corrosion and depolarization of the steel in the pipe... Once it arrives, Ethanol is added, making 87 octane.. Other additives are then added to make 89 and 91+... The Ethanol and additives come by truck, rail, barge, ship, etc... I have used 85 octane as OPE fuel, runs pretty good..

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Dufus2

Its my understanding the gas is the same and blended with an additive to modify the octane rating.

Where did you hear that? The only additives that work in small quantities to boost octane rating are tetraethyl lead and MMT. Everything else is essentially about "blending octane" which is in and of itself of a high octane rating, like toluene, ethanol, or MTBE. Gasoline is about blendstocks. There are no additives commonly used today that can safely raise octane rating. Lead or MMT was about it, and they've been removed for various reasons. Really what they do is make a certain amount of 95, this amount of 93, this amount of 83, etc. Eventually it has to be blended together to make a salable gasoline considering whether or not ethanol is added. I believe this was just reposting an article from Sport Car Magazine.

Quote

https://www.smokinvette.com/corvett...1-why-california-only-has-91-octane.html You see, when crude oil is refined into gasoline, the refinery doesn't have all that much control over what comes out. Crude oil is full of all kinds of stuff, and a refinery simply separates it, sorting all the iso-this and hepta-that in order of density. The really heavy stuff, like tar, is near the bottom, while the really light stuff, like butane, is near the top. Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline. The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with crap--something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by mattwithcats

My understanding of the East Coast gas is 85 octane is moved through the Colonial Pipeline. This is pure gas, no additives, to prevent corrosion and depolarization of the steel in the pipe... Once it arrives, Ethanol is added, making 87 octane.. Other additives are then added to make 89 and 91+... The Ethanol and additives come by truck, rail, barge, ship, etc... I have used 85 octane as OPE fuel, runs pretty good..

No. That's not correct. The only additives that increase octane rating and are used today are called "gasoline". Well - there are some chemicals like toluene that can do that too, but that's really just blending in a higher octane fuel. What most East Coast gasoline is has the name "reformulated basestock for oxygenate blending" (RBOB) which is about 85 octane and will be 87 octane when used 90/10 with ethanol. There's no way to add more "additives" to make an 87 octane fuel with ethanol a 91/92 octane fuel. It takes higher octane rated gasoline to do that. You mentioned Colonial Pipeline. Here's their description of how they transport different fuels. I can't direct link the photo, but they have a good one showing the transportation of premium and regular in different stages of a pipe. https://www.colpipe.com/about-us/faqs On top of that, there are multiple fuel transporters on the East Coast. Plains All American has fuel depots on the East Coast that are supplied by rail. Kinder Morgan has product pipelines on the East Coast. https://www.kindermorgan.com/pages/asset_map/default.aspx Certainly ethanol can't be transported by current pipes because of corrosion issues. They're sent by tankers or rail tanks.

 

[Black_Thunder]

prices vary around here. There is a pump in the closest town that I like to go it, its pay at the pump only because its a stand alone gas station that was part of a grocery store but the pumps were operated by a different company, the store has closed but the pumps are still open. they have ethanol-free 91 premium around a mid-grade price, right now its 2.84 for premium at this station where up the road at a Kwik-trip its 3.23ish. I generally only need premium for my cycles and 4wheelers, but when i go through this town I'd rather stop at this small set of pumps and pay for premium vs. going up the road and paying a similar price for mid-grade. I tend to run ethanol free in everything when I can because there a few area stations that have 87 ethanol, 87 ethanol free and then the 91 ethanol free, but if I pay cash its 6 cents off a gallon.

 

[Olas]

Hot weather means high IAT so it makes sense to buy the highest octane you can afford. You only have to rattle a hypereutectic piston once and it's game over - sure there are knock sensors and unnecessary super-rich mixtures for cooling but power and mpg are important, you never know when you will have to go WOT uphill during a heatwave so it makes sense to protect your several-thousand-dollar-investment and use the best gas you can find. Or if you insist on buying cheap stuff then throw a gallon of toluene in every tank - your pistons and throttle pedal and LTFT will thank you every time you drive.

 

[OilStasher]

Originally Posted by oldhp

There is a VP station close to my house and I kept hearing their premium is 100% gasoline. Well turns out I've know this guy for 30yrs. So I drove over and asked him. Nope, no 100% gasoline in the premium. He has 2 tanks under ground, 87 and 93 octane, both 10% ethanol. As it turns out where his station is located the county mandates 10% ethanol in all types of fuel, 87,89 and 93. Has to do with taxes, not the EPA believe it or not. He pays taxes on 100% of his fuel. There some other counties that only pay taxes on the unleaded gasoline only. 5000 gals 87 octane, 10% ethanol. In other county, they pay taxes on 4500 gals only. He said a lot of the counties are in the process of changing this so the station owners pay on full load not just 90% of it. Money Honey............Nothing to do with "clean air". Amazing......

Yep. Nothing wrong with that state at all . Not instigating, speaking from experience (ex-resident, never again). I'm all for supporting local/state/U.S. jobs, and definitely all for supporting farmers, but ethanol is way beyond a scam at this point. If the go.. powers that be put just 10% of their efforts into CNG or other alternatives we'd be far better off. But nope, we still mandate a fuel that costs more to manufacture than it's worth at the cost of food (lots of hungry people), and is more harmful to the air than gasoline itself. Perhaps this state should look into how much "clean air" coal-powered electric plants produce... All about the dollars.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by pschnahc

Seems like a nice way to extort the octane "on the fencers" for the convenience factor. If you want the fairest price for true mid-grade fuel, you gotta pump the low and high octane yourself. I used to do this. Always pump premium first, then the regular...don't want to leave a liter of paid high octane fuel in the pumps lines

That's not how it works. You pay for $20 in premium, you get $20 out of the nozzle. A station would get in trouble with weights and measures and your AG for not dispensing the dollar equivalent. In other words, any fuel in the line is already factored into the metering.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted by NO2

Bad idea to purchase a car that requires premium. But those are always luxury models, and people who buy them can afford the difference. Most will run on regular anyway, albeit at slightly reduced power.

Last I heard, 41% of new vehicles sold run on premium. We have three vehicles in our stable that recommend premium. I run regular in all of them. I notice little loss of mpg, but I do lose some top end power when accelerating.