Why have 5W-30 or 5W-20?

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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
How many 0w-30's are you aware of? How many OEMs spec a 0w-30?
Cant speak for the newer models, but the FF for my dads Audi A4 was 0w30. It says a 0w30/ 40 can be used interchangeably though. Other than that, I cant think of any others.. although I am not very knowledgeable about what other European cars spec. Shoot, the way some are though, a car that calls for a 5w30 in the US could call for a 0w30 with the same engine in another country. shrug
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
I still like 10w30 and 10w40 synth oils. I want my HTHS. I want my non-SN zddp levels.
Then just use a Euro oil shrug
 
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Since oil blenders don't divulge their recipes, some fundamental assumptions are in order. I think Johnny2Bad's baseline assumptions are ok if one stays within comparable parameters. For instance - I generally use API Base Stock III synthetics in 5W-XX instead of 0W-xx in that these will have either/and less severe hydrocracking/treatment and VII's. As noted, 0W's really are only for very severe cold start ambients where borderline pumpability of 5W Base Stock III synthetics come into play. But how many geographic regions are like this, and how many times per year? Very few in North America relative to the total population of vehicles. Sure there's a place for 0W, but I submit it is the exception instead of the rule.
 
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
Exactlamente.. smile Though y'all do have some nasty ice storms from time to time.. But obviously it doesn't warrant a change in viscosity. In north Texas it may be possible due to the "blue northern" that sweep in. With high temps in the teens and low temps way down. Amazing the weather differences across that massive state. 80s in Brownsville to 10s and 0s and snow north of Amarillo. And yes I've seen that on the map. Crazy smile
Yeah by Dallas it's never that cold. I don't think I have ever seen a day where it didn't reach 20*, and I have never seen real single digit weather before wind chill is accounted for. If the high is below freezing, it's a "holy [censored] it's cold" kind of day...happens maybe twice a year where I'm at. Amarillo/Lubbock are completely different animals though. They'll get close to zero in the winter and around 100* all summer long.
 
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That's what I said smile Big difference between Dallas and Amarillo.. Huge difference actually at times.
 
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I live is So. Texas. Tens of millions of other people live in the southern part of the U.S., where it seldom ever gets down to freezing. For us, cold flow is not a consideration. You could almost say, why have 0w-20 or 0w-30.
 
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I did notice that when I could find side by side test results on an oil maker's website, the 0WXX NOACK numbers were generally worse than for the 5WXX oils...that would definitely concern me.
 
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Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: stchman
I keep wondering that when oil manufacturers are making 0W-30 and 0W-20, why even have 5W-30 and 5W-20? The 0W oils are getting pretty popular as of late. 0W-30 and 5W-30 are identical at operating temperatures and 0W gives better cold flowing properties, same with 0W-20 vs. 5W-20. IMO, it would simplify packaging and inventory for oil makers. A lot of manufacturers are specifying that in very cold climates a 0W can be used in place of a 5W. Thanks.
Except that 0w-20s and 0w-30s are possible only as a full synthetic or synthetic blend. So if that if these were the only viscosities available, there would be no more conventional oils and cost would go up.
Nailed it...5wxx can be a conventional; not everyone is willing to pay $5 a quart or more for synthetic.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My engine is spec'd 5W20 but I use 5W30 just the same. I have yet to use an 0W anything but am willing to try it. USA
Also nailed it. For the southern 2/3 of the US the temperatures generally don't justify a 0wxx oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I did notice that when I could find side by side test results on an oil maker's website, the 0WXX NOACK numbers were generally worse than for the 5WXX oils...that would definitely concern me.
+1 Unless you live in Moosejaw Saskatchewan, no need for 0W & definite drawbacks on stability.
 
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Without all the CAFE fuel saving focus, 5W-30 would remain the de facto standard here in the USA. We buy into the hysteria when we crown 0W-?? oils the best oil for our vehicles. But the Euro spec 5W-30 we will start seeing at retail in the coming years may be the "universal motor oil" for all but the most demanding applications.
 

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Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I did notice that when I could find side by side test results on an oil maker's website, the 0WXX NOACK numbers were generally worse than for the 5WXX oils...that would definitely concern me.
+1 Unless you live in Moosejaw Saskatchewan, no need for 0W & definite drawbacks on stability.
I think the majority of Euro OEM's would disagree with you given that a very large percentage of their approved lubricants are 0w-xx. Stability-wise, they also have NOACK below 10% (much lower than many 5w-xx non-Euro oils) and most have proven to be very shear stable as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My engine is spec'd 5W20 but I use 5W30 just the same. I have yet to use an 0W anything but am willing to try it. USA
You're in LA, it never gets cold enough to need 5W-20 no less 0W-20. I've run 10W-30 and 5W-30 plus 5W-20 in my wife's 2005 4.6 Explorer in the warmer temps here in NJ. But in the winter I use a 5/0W-20 oil. For my truck I just use 5W-20 since it runs on the same oil for 12+ months, warm and cold temps. And I'm not going to change it early due to season changes. It doesn't get the miles my wife's Explorer does. All the oils are synthetic. Whimsey
 
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BlueOvalFitter

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Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
My engine is spec'd 5W20 but I use 5W30 just the same. I have yet to use an 0W anything but am willing to try it. USA
You're in LA, it never gets cold enough to need 5W-20 no less 0W-20. I've run 10W-30 and 5W-30 plus 5W-20 in my wife's 2005 4.6 Explorer in the warmer temps here in NJ. But in the winter I use a 5/0W-20 oil. For my truck I just use 5W-20 since it runs on the same oil for 12+ months, warm and cold temps. And I'm not going to change it early due to season changes. It doesn't get the miles my wife's Explorer does. All the oils are synthetic. Whimsey
I like your thinking. USA
 

BlueOvalFitter

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Originally Posted By: KCJeep
If I lived in LA my vehicles would never see anything lighter than a 10w30.
KC, I like your thinking as well. But, we do get some pretty cold winters here as well. I think the coldest it got down to here in CenLa (Central La.) last year was 15* with a wind chill of 6*. I think an engine can handle a good 10W30 oil in those kind of temperatures, correct?
 
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Because many peoples oil caps say 5w20/30 and they will want to buy to put in it because so many of them believe its the only thing that will make their vehicles rum properly. Also because some manufacturers are still recommending it. so basically because there's demand for it and they make money selling it. Also there are no 0wxx Dino oils.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I think the majority of Euro OEM's would disagree with you given that a very large percentage of their approved lubricants are 0w-xx.
The introduction of dexos1 would have been a very opportune time for GM to abandon 5w-XX, too. wink Although, they might have had trouble with a lot of oil company resistance, or set a lot of them scrambling.
 
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
If I lived in LA my vehicles would never see anything lighter than a 10w30.
KC, I like your thinking as well. But, we do get some pretty cold winters here as well. I think the coldest it got down to here in CenLa (Central La.) last year was 15* with a wind chill of 6*. I think an engine can handle a good 10W30 oil in those kind of temperatures, correct?
Exactly, wind chill means nothing to a vehicle and a 10w30 will start fine at 15. I run 5w30 here as it gets below zero which is asking too much of a 10w IMO.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I did notice that when I could find side by side test results on an oil maker's website, the 0WXX NOACK numbers were generally worse than for the 5WXX oils...that would definitely concern me.
+1 Unless you live in Moosejaw Saskatchewan, no need for 0W & definite drawbacks on stability.
I think the majority of Euro OEM's would disagree with you given that a very large percentage of their approved lubricants are 0w-xx. Stability-wise, they also have NOACK below 10% (much lower than many 5w-xx non-Euro oils) and most have proven to be very shear stable as well.
Sure but posters on this thread don't live in Europe & typically access to full PAO sans VII is scare, so my point is valid for like vs. like formulations.
 
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