Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter?

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Originally Posted by Al
Originally Posted by dave1251

I got one for you it does not matter because no one has or will prove a 20 micron vs 40 micron filter extends engine life. For a few BITOG members just can't figure this out.

ummmm...NO:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30697/choose-oil-filter



Once again real world is key no one has presented if and how much longer higher efficiency filters extend engine life. One possible explanation is because even in severe service the oil and filter are change before the useful life is pushed and just as likely the vehicle is retired because of other issues before the engine is worn.
 
Originally Posted by Al
dave1251 said:
I got one for you it does not matter because no one has or will prove a 20 micron vs 40 micron filter extends engine life. For a few BITOG members just can't figure this out.

ummmm...NO:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30697/choose-oil-filter

Cast iron, used in cylinder walls, breaks down, crushes, silica and alumina (sapphire) quickly with little effect on the cast iron. Cast iron laps are used with abrasives to grind materials, they wear very slowly even in direct contact with thick abrasive slurry.

In the picture of cellulose versus synthetic fibers everyone focuses on the holes, but not on the large thicknesses of fiber in cellulose that entrap fine particles on or in the fibers. Those fiber sections are absent in synthetic. Synthetic fibers trap nothing on or in the fiber itself. Only the holes filter in synthetic fibers.If a filter is changed often enough the many holes aren't so important.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by dave1251

Once again real world is key no one has presented if and how much longer higher efficiency filters extend engine life. One possible explanation is because even in severe service the oil and filter are change before the useful life is pushed and just as likely the vehicle is retired because of other issues before the engine is worn.

Suit yourself its not possible to control parameters in the real world like it it is with a controlled test. Use whatever you want I could care less. I'm 73 years old I don't have time to argue.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dave1251


Once again real world is key no one has presented if and how much longer higher efficiency filters extend engine life. One possible explanation is because even in severe service the oil and filter are change before the useful life is pushed and just as likely the vehicle is retired because of other issues before the engine is worn.



I still feel like it's worth the extra couple of bucks to get a more efficient filter, it certainly won't shorten the engine's life, so the benefits outweigh the negatives in the long run. Besides, it's not like you have to spend a fortune to use an efficient filter. The Wix/NAPA Gold costs roughly the same as a lot of less efficient filters do.

Also, why do so many people on here need absolute proof before using something? You can't just trust the fact that a more efficient filter is a good thing to have?
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by dave1251
Once again real world is key no one has presented if and how much longer higher efficiency filters extend engine life. One possible explanation is because even in severe service the oil and filter are change before the useful life is pushed and just as likely the vehicle is retired because of other issues before the engine is worn.

I still feel like it's worth the extra couple of bucks to get a more efficient filter, it certainly won't shorten the engine's life, so the benefits outweigh the negatives in the long run. Besides, it's not like you have to spend a fortune to use an efficient filter. The Wix/NAPA Gold costs roughly the same as a lot of less efficient filters do.

Also, why do so many people on here need absolute proof before using something? You can't just trust the fact that a more efficient filter is a good thing to have?


Because it's a basic lack of logic. People that use low efficiency filters have zero proof that they didn't cause any more wear than using a high efficiency filter ... expect for their standard statement of "my engine didn't blow-up and it was still running good at 200K miles". That's hard core science right there - lol. BTW, I'd consider a full flow filter that's 95% @ 20u or better to be in the "high efficiency" category, so there are a lot of filters on the market these days that meet that these days.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Originally Posted by Al
It boggles my small brain that folks that post on BITOG and who are better educated than joesixpack. ....find it difficult to spend a few more bucks to get a 20 micron filter vs a 40 one. Considering at $3 a gallon for gas we spend that every 20 to 40 miles. And the filter can go 10,000+ miles. Can someone explain that to me??


I can think of a few reasons:

1 - They're tightwads / frugal / penny pinchers
2 - The fact that they have to spend increasingly more on fuel means they're looking for any way possible to offset those costs by saving a few bucks on filters, wipers, etc..
3 - They're trying to find that magic/sweet spot - a cheap filter that can perform way above its 'pay grade'. With so many filters out there, who knows if there's one that will surprise you

.. I'm sure there are other reasons



I got one for you it does not matter because no one has or will prove a 20 micron vs 40 micron filter extends engine life. For a few BITOG members just can't figure this out.


Cummins and Fleetguard have done extensive studies proving that better filtering efficiency results in a better and longer life for their engines.

This is not true of all engines. I don't deny that. A lot of record breakers made it on jobber or dealer filters, but I consider it to be simply hedging my bets.

For extended OCIs, keeping the oil as clean as possible for as long as possible is just the program.

My one engine made it's first 1/4 million miles on $13/gallon Delvac and $4 Pennzoil filters. So your position is a very valid one. There's a 1.2 million mile ISB 5.9 that made it on cheap oil and filters.......towing boats its whole life.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
For extended OCIs, keeping the oil as clean as possible for as long as possible is just the program.


Yes, the longer you run an OCI the better filtration will keep the overall average particulate level down. Think of the sump oil as a slurry of "grinding solution" that goes through the engine 1000s of times over an OCI (roughly ~5,000 to 6,000 gallons flowed through the average engine every 1,000 miles). Oil cleanliness level times the OCI mileage is the number you want to reduce. That's why big commercial trucks typically use 2u bypass filtering systems, because they run the oil for 25K to 50K miles depending on the sump capacity.

You could run no oil filter, but change the oil every 1000 miles or less and probably keep the wear level from particulate in the oil down as well or better than a 10-12K OCI with an inefficient oil filter.
 
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Fram Ultra and some others have two or even three layers, in an attempt to keep the finest layer from clogging too soon with larger debris. Fact remains a filter is a screen in the path of the oil flow to the bearings, there has to be porosity somewhere in the filter. It's a decades old idea to make a two in one filter, one fine, one coarser element. It probably costs too much and the general public doesn't care or won't spend any extra money for it.

I would like to see how they make filter media, from raw material to finished product. It has to have the right Frazier number for porosity and be very consistently made.

Trasko, jointly developed with Subaru i the 80's, makes a very fine element replacing a standard full flow and has a screen filter for bypass. I haven't quite accepted how they say it works on the flow path, or I would have bought one years ago. I may still buy one just for hobby excuse purchase. Subaru being part of the development gives it some engineering credibility.

http://trasko-usa.com




Have you read or looked into the MICRO GREEN oil filters?
 
Any company that wants to make itself appear legit needs to stop using all caps for phrases on a website featuring borders of red and yellow, and a design straight from a high school computer class in 1996. I'm serious--the design screams scam! http://trasko-usa.com/index.html
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Any company that wants to make itself appear legit needs to stop using all caps for phrases on a website featuring borders of red and yellow, and a design straight from a high school computer class in 1996. I'm serious--the design screams scam! http://trasko-usa.com/index.html


" IT IS LIKE HAVING A SMALL OIL REFINERY UNDER YOU HOOD! "

Gee... where have I heard that before?
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(Frantz)
 
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Any company that wants to make itself appear legit needs to stop using all caps for phrases on a website featuring borders of red and yellow, and a design straight from a high school computer class in 1996. I'm serious--the design screams scam! http://trasko-usa.com/index.html


LOL WELL I'M HARD OF READING LIKE SOME OTHERS ON BITOG AND I LIKE CAPS! You don't like CAPS skip to the next post!
 
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Any company that wants to make itself appear legit needs to stop using all caps for phrases on a website featuring borders of red and yellow, and a design straight from a high school computer class in 1996. I'm serious--the design screams scam! http://trasko-usa.com/index.html

+1 on "the design screams scam!" Sales by hyperbole. If they have a good product, they don't have to do it.
wink.gif
 
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