Why do Car Makers not specify Synthetic to boost CAFE MPGs?

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Hey Jerry, where in ON are you located?

Well, I'm West of Thunder Bay and East of WInnipeg, MB. What we refer to as "North West" Ontario. That's about as much as I'm willing to divulge, why?
 
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Originally posted by slalom44:
My point was that there appears to be a lack of evidence that synthetics give better fuel economy, which would motivate the oil companies to make the switch.

There is evidence from studies of Long-Distance Trucking. However, the difference is so small (1/2 MPG) that it would not be visible in one car.

Also, I wish I could say natural oil worked for me. I used nothing but Pennzoil every 3000 miles, and at ~150,000 miles my old car sounded like a diesel because it knocked so badly. As a result, I've decided to avoid natural oil.
 
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Originally posted by slalom44:

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Originally posted by Heyjay:
Sort of like building an exotic custom $380,000 vacation home and then nickle-n-diming to find the cheapest Low Bidder stain possible. YEESH!

Some people can afford a custom $380,000 vacation home because they didn't spend all their money on snake oil to ward off the onslaught of criticism and sarcasm!


It costs me $20 to buy a gallon of Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic which provides superior protection for my $20,000 car, so I can drive it 300,000 miles before buying another. I consider this to be just common sense.

As for the people who pay $30,000 for a luxury car, and then go cheap and buy the $1 a quart Wal-Mart oil that is virtually worthless junk, Benjamin Franklin said it best:
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Penny wise... and dollar foolish.

 
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Originally posted by batterycar:
Also, I wish I could say natural oil worked for me. I used nothing but Pennzoil every 3000 miles, and at ~150,000 miles my old car sounded like a diesel because it knocked so badly. As a result, I've decided to avoid natural oil.

Mere coincidence I think. I had a pickup that ran 175,000 miles on dino (natural) oil with 3000 mile changes and it never knocked. The present owner is overe 200,000 miles and still no knock. And it has plenty of power too.
 
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Originally posted by **** in Falls Church:

The LT1 engine had an oiling hole for the cam which did not pass sufficient (non-synthetic) oil when temperatures approached freezing. This resulted in wiped cams. GM stopped sales while they tried to figure out what to do.


I don't know where you got your info from, but this cannot be completely true. The LT1 engine in the Corvette is virtually identical to the one in the f-body. But yet the LT1 engine in the 93-97 f-bodies (Camaro/Firebird) all came with conventional oil, and I know of a lot of guys who have never run synthetic in them, even in cold weather, and yet haven't had the problems you mentioned, and have gotten high mileage out of the engines too. The LT1 engine is basically an updated small block Chevy with reverse flow cooling, better heads/cam and an optical distributor system. Other than that, the engine design itself is the same as the SBC.
 
batterycar:
I really have to disagree with your comments about Supertech. While it is certainly cheap (84c/qt) it is not in fact inadequate. All of the UOAs of it on here indicate that it is wholly adequate when used for standard, short (3,000 mile) intervals. Some people have even had good results with it at 5,000 to 9,000 miles.
 
How much money do the dealers make on 3000 mile dino? Also, change even the cheapest dino often enough, and the engine makes it through warrenty. makes it hard to cheat. Actually I have approached 200K with several cars with frequent changes of Pennzoil dino, before trading them for reasons other than worn engines. Some of them before I knew better than to run Fram filters. My 71 Valiant may have made do with Valvoline 10W-40 and Fram. Hey, I was young and inexperienced.
 
I found it interesting when my dad told me his $10 dealer oil change on his '02 Ford Escape V-6 went up to $20. Turns out they were using 5w20 dino for $10, but switched to using a synthetic blend for $20. Hmm....
 
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Originally posted by VaderSS:
Considering the specials most places have, not much on the actual oil change. Where they get people is on changing belts, filters, pushing "value added" service...,

Ahhh... so that's why my dealer keeps giving me "free" 30-point inspections. They are looking for something to fix.
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Originally posted by Heyjay:
The cheap way for car makers to meet CAFE or get better MPG is to run an oil with a lower kinematic viscosity. Lower viscosity = less drag = slightly higher MPG, all other things equal.

Great post, Heyjay. I don't dispute anything you said. In fact, I use synthetics in my other car and my wife's car. And in your case, the use of synthetics is a must.

My reference to "snake oil" was referring to the use of synthetic as a CAFE booster, as addressed in the original intent of this thread, and as the intent of each of my posts. There are definitely advantages to synthetics (some brands more than others, which I know you will agree), but I'm not convinced that fuel economy is an inherent advantage of all oils classified as "synthetic" (except under extreme conditions, as you have pointed out).

Some people have noticed a fuel savings, some have reported the opposite. I suspect that some of this is placebo, and some of it is due to actual viscosities under a specific engine's operating conditions.
I guess I shouldn't have used sarcasm in response to your sarcasm. But it did get you to open up and make some great points!!
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Salamon44, It cost me less then $64 dollars a year to run $7 dollar a quart oil and $6 per filter OEM Toyota oil filters. If I add that $64 dollars back into my really small income it does not net me a bigger house, newer car, fancy rifle etc...... You make it sound like running synthetic is going to cost someone $10,000 a year... Now if you are changine oil in the Enzo at $60 a quart I can see you complaint being a litle more valid!
 
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Originally posted by JohnBrowning: You make it sound like running synthetic is going to cost someone $10,000 a year...

I'm not sure where you got that from my posts. The only reference I made to cost (and not fuel economy) was, "...I've got 198,000 miles on my '95 Corolla using mostly SuperTech oil and filter. I plan on getting rid of the car when it hits 300,000 miles even though it likely will still run well. So all the extra money you spent on your oil changes just buys you "a warm and cozy feeling" unless you drive your car under extreme conditions..."

Everything else I posted was in reference to the issue of using Synthetic to boost CAFE. My response on the "vacation home" issue was in reference to improved fuel economy, not cost of oil changes.
 
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How much money do the dealers make on 3000 mile dino?

Considering the specials most places have, not much on the actual oil change. Where they get people is on changing belts, filters, pushing "value added" service..., often before it is really needed. I'm a veteran mechanic and I still feel the urge to say "screw it, change my 6 month old belt." when that persuasive saleman comes calling...
 
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Originally posted by slalom44:
There are definitely advantages to synthetics, but I'm not convinced that fuel economy is an inherent advantage of all oils classified as "synthetic" (except under extreme conditions, as you have pointed out).

mobil.com clams there IS a fuel economy advantage to using synthetics. (At least internal to the Mobil brand.) They wouldn't make such a claim unless they had data to back it up.
 
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