Why did we close the book on Cams and Zinc?

Whatever engine or oil, it really pretty simple. If you wiping out cams and (actual) flat lifters, then you are revving the engine too high. Not rocket science. Magical oil will not save you.
 
The six speed has been around since when '06 or '07? At 40,000 units a month-you can do the math and tell me how many zeros are behind that decimal point for failures. And you can do the same on AFM lifter failures.
 
The six speed has been around since when '06 or '07? At 40,000 units a month-you can do the math and tell me how many zeros are behind that decimal point for failures. And you can do the same on AFM lifter failures.
You in the right thread ?
 
If you ask me, the fact that both roller lifter and flat-lifter cam failures (which have totally different lubrication requirements) started seeing masses of failures at roughly the same time hints STRONGLY that the cam and lifter manufacturers are the root problem. Be it poor metallurgy, poor surface finishing, or both. ZDDP is overly blamed and overly-touted as the cure- many 1960s oils had very little by modern standards, right in the heyday of the big flat-lifter cams from OEMs. That would also explain the continuing flood of "I used break-in oil with 1300 PPM of zinc, followed the 20 minutes at 2000 RPM rule, and I still lost 3 lifters on break-in!" posts on forums. :-/
 
Let's say this, leaving cheap CATS out of the conversation for a minute, what downside did 2002 levels of zinc averaging 1200ppm have for more modern engines. And even when we had 1200ppm zinc, does anyone remember issues with CATS in the first place? Actually, I have never heard of one getting gummed up with the 1200 ppm zinc in 100k miles which was the standard for the change, has anyone? Was the real goal a simple reduction is zinc for whatever reason for whatever cost to the vehicle owners and not really trying to get CATS to last 100k miles? If we used 1200ppm zinc in modern vehicles would CATS start gumming up at disturbing rates? Would there be a downside to using 1200ppm zinc at all? Would there be a possible upside?
Well the ZDDP ain't going back in to the formula in ILSAC lubes so, no use shouting at the clouds for the rain. I have rebuilt and serviced dozens of engines professionally. I've been replacing cams and timings sets all along, and most when the oil was API Service category SD and SE and those stockers had hydraulic lifters and seat pressure around 80- 100 . Since our ARCO Service Station drag engines were budget grenades, I've never seen a wiped cam on those, just snapped rods and axles and pinion yokes,

I was in that place blaming harsh running motors on the missing ZDP. So back 15- 20 years ago, I would run Lawnmower oils or Yardman MTD Snowblower synthetic. I had used M1 R 4T when it was a real PAO syn and LOADED as a 1qt substitute into Valvoline Racing. Some how the two disparate add packs got along. the double load of ZDP did seem to help with piston side loading and cocking racket. But I did notice a lack of peak power.

Now you have Quicksilver 40, and various Motorcycle and ATV and Marine 4 stroke lubes all over the market that carry API SH/SJ and many with a fair amount of ZDP. Just do your homework and look for a UOA or VOA.

Now remember this stuff gets used up and starts depleting right away - and FAST when you are on the go pedal hard.
So a 1400ppm phos oil will be down to your "wimpy oil" phos level after a couple hard rounds or a few hot street nights.

The Z & P will show in analysis but it wont be functional anymore so don't let that confuse you.

And too much will cause cam spalling and pitting by is very mechanism.

Roller cams don't need the stuff at all, but I would say slipper skirt pistons, rocker trunnions, valve stem tips and rod side faces and even the good old oil pump enjoy some ZDP

So as good ol' AL used to say,
"Be careful what you wish for "
 
ARCOgraphite:
“Now remember this stuff gets used up and starts depleting right away - and FAST when you are on the go pedal hard.
So a 1400ppm phos oil will be down to your "wimpy oil" phos level after a couple hard rounds or a few hot street nights.”

Sure, but both oils will be deleted at the same rate if used in the same engine & application. So if you start “wimpy” you fall deeper sooner.

Anyway I think it’s a little more complex than that, as there are many different types of ZDDP. Member Rdy4War knows more than I do about the differences. Maybe they can help here.
 
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