Why buy conventional if synthetic costs slightly more?

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I own classic cars that don't like, or need synthetic oils, and there are conventional oils that give more than good enough lubrication for them, they both run quieter and smoother on conventional oils, and i don't see any temperature extremes that would warrant the use of synthetic oils.


What do you mean don’t like? Consistently people here and elsewhere say that Pennzoil Platinum and their Ultra quiets their engine and makes it run smoothly. Less noise means less friction. I think an older car would benefit from that if it’s the same grade the manufacturer calls for.


Not a classic car, but my Burgman didn't like synthetic. On cheap 10W-40, it was fine. On synthetic, it burned a full quart in 2000 miles. (Alarming, when it holds not quite a quart and a half!)

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
That threadhas it at max it's 70% gtl


Correct, the remainder of the base is more expensive PAO. You didn't ask for proof of Mobil blending an oil with ONLY GTL, you asked for proof of them using it and I'm a tad confused as why you seem to think that 70% figure is important

It isn't. The document I provided the excerpt from explains the reasoning here. Shell doesn't have a PAO plant, so they'd have it buy PAO from Mobil or some other major who does, which is why before GTL, they were using a hydrocracked Group III product, which they likely still use in their lower tier products, probably blended with GTL, which, in the absence of PAO, is their top offering.

Just to be perfectly clear here: None of the Pennzoil oils are going to be 100% GTL either. There will be carrier for the additive package, the PI package itself....etc, which make up a not insignificant percentage. I can post a picture from one of Mobil's blending guide if that helps you on that front.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
That threadhas it at max it's 70% gtl


Correct, the remainder of the base is more expensive PAO. You didn't ask for proof of Mobil blending an oil with ONLY GTL, you asked for proof of them using it and I'm a tad confused as why you seem to think that 70% figure is important

It isn't. The document I provided the excerpt from explains the reasoning here. Shell doesn't have a PAO plant, so they'd have it buy PAO from Mobil or some other major who does, which is why before GTL, they were using a hydrocracked Group III product, which they likely still use in their lower tier products, probably blended with GTL, which, in the absence of PAO, is their top offering.

Just to be perfectly clear here: None of the Pennzoil oils are going to be 100% GTL either. There will be carrier for the additive package, the PI package itself....etc, which make up a not insignificant percentage. I can post a picture from one of Mobil's blending guide if that helps you on that front.


Like Eric Cartman says here:
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/v81pet/you-got-the-stuff

The base stock should be 100% gtl. I’m pretty sure Pennzoil is because the oil is water like clear.
I’m just not a fan of thinking it’s one thing but it’s really a combination of that thing plus something else. And I don’t think the additive package needs to be suspended in dino.

Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.

 

[kschachn]

What? A different oil each batch? Lol if you say so.

Your ramblings sound familiar, like someone else who used to be on here recently before he wasn't on here any more. I wonder where he went?

Nowhere maybe? Same show just a different channel?

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Like Eric Cartman says here:
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/v81pet/you-got-the-stuff

The base stock should be 100% gtl. I’m pretty sure Pennzoil is because the oil is water like clear.
I’m just not a fan of thinking it’s one thing but it’s really a combination of that thing plus something else. And I don’t think the additive package needs to be suspended in dino.

Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants

Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.


"KFC gravy"...what?
Is this Merkava?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.
"KFC gravy"...what? Is this Merkava?
Indeed and what data is there to support "But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time." Probably need to step into some boots, it is getting deep in here...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants

The base stock should be 100% gtl. I’m pretty sure Pennzoil is because the oil is water like clear.
I’m just not a fan of thinking it’s one thing but it’s really a combination of that thing plus something else. And I don’t think the additive package needs to be suspended in dino.

Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.


This is going to be my last reply on this, as you don't seem inclined to attempt to wrap your head around it.

- The base stock isn't 100% GTL
- Many base oils are clear: Group II and Group II+ products shown:

- The product you think is one thing is already a combination of other things; all oils are blends
- The additive package needs to be suspended in something that provides solubility beyond what are offered by Group III, GTL and PAO
- Mobil doesn't brag, and didn't brag about using more expensive PAO either. You seem easily swayed by marketing.
- The MSDS gives ranges because nobody divulges the amount of each base oil in their products. These are NOT blending guides, they give a rough percentage (range) of what products required to be listed on an MSDS, are in the final product. This does NOT mean that the formula changes wildly batch to batch, good grief.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants

The base stock should be 100% gtl. I’m pretty sure Pennzoil is because the oil is water like clear.
I’m just not a fan of thinking it’s one thing but it’s really a combination of that thing plus something else. And I don’t think the additive package needs to be suspended in dino.

Mobil doesn’t openly brag about it being gtl like pennzoil does. So when their base could be 40% gtl or up to70, you’re getting a different oil each batch. It’s like sometimes it’s mostly kfc gravy, sometimes it’s less than half kfc gravy. Now, most drivers can’t tell the difference just driving from here to there in a 4 banger. But from a chemistry standpoint, you’re not getting a consistent product each time.


This is going to be my last reply on this, as you don't seem inclined to attempt to wrap your head around it.

- The base stock isn't 100% GTL
- Many base oils are clear: Group II and Group II+ products shown:

- The product you think is one thing is already a combination of other things; all oils are blends
- The additive package needs to be suspended in something that provides solubility beyond what are offered by Group III, GTL and PAO
- Mobil doesn't brag, and didn't brag about using more expensive PAO either. You seem easily swayed by marketing.
- The MSDS gives ranges because nobody divulges the amount of each base oil in their products. These are NOT blending guides, they give a rough percentage (range) of what products required to be listed on an MSDS, are in the final product. This does NOT mean that the formula changes wildly batch to batch, good grief.






Ok I see.

So the change from batch to batch is not worth worrying about. 40% or 70% won't make any difference in the oil performance. It''s just that I remember from a few chem labs how a slight difference in reactant amounts can have huge difference in products. Not so much here then. And they keep their formulations a secret.

 

[KnicksGiants]

If you don't bother reading the whole post or clicking the link in the post, of course the post may not make sense to you.

So Overkill says all oils are blends, meaning one batch may differ in chemical composition to another, but for our purposes it does not matter because they will perform the same. Ok then.

And I saw a video from Pennzoil's YouTube promoting their Synthetic blend. They said "at least 40% synthetic." Meaning their formulation can vary from batch to batch. But it's nor worth worrying about is what I'm hearing.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
If you don't bother reading the whole post or clicking the link in the post, of course the post may not make sense to you.

So Overkill says all oils are blends, meaning one batch may differ in chemical composition to another, but for our purposes it does not matter because they will perform the same. Ok then.

And I saw a video from Pennzoil's YouTube promoting their Synthetic blend. They said "at least 40% synthetic." Meaning their formulation can vary from batch to batch. But it's nor worth worrying about is what I'm hearing.

Cool, guess we are done here then. You won't be posting any more about it, either under this screen name or any other?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
If you don't bother reading the whole post or clicking the link in the post, of course the post may not make sense to you.

So Overkill says all oils are blends, meaning one batch may differ in chemical composition to another, but for our purposes it does not matter because they will perform the same. Ok then.

And I saw a video from Pennzoil's YouTube promoting their Synthetic blend. They said "at least 40% synthetic." Meaning their formulation can vary from batch to batch. But it's nor worth worrying about is what I'm hearing.



There are base oil substitution guidelines. The formulation may vary batch to batch or period to period along these guidelines.

There is truly batch variation. Buy the same stuff for a few OCI and you will "feel it" - if you are a master

Just like fine wine. No sarcasm intended.


No Problem then? All Hunky Dorey?
How bout a real world major player SCANDAL?
Tell that to Ashland (Valvoline) whom ripped XOM (re: Mobil1 ) where Ashland's and contracted independent testing showed M1 5w30 FAILING to meet current ILSAC and API certification guidelines.

This was over a decade ago.


Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

- Ken

 

[grampi]

I don't use synthetic in any of my vehicles that don't specifically call for it. No need...

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
If you don't bother reading the whole post or clicking the link in the post, of course the post may not make sense to you.

So Overkill says all oils are blends, meaning one batch may differ in chemical composition to another, but for our purposes it does not matter because they will perform the same. Ok then.

And I saw a video from Pennzoil's YouTube promoting their Synthetic blend. They said "at least 40% synthetic." Meaning their formulation can vary from batch to batch. But it's nor worth worrying about is what I'm hearing.

Cool, guess we are done here then. You won't be posting any more about it, either under this screen name or any other?


I feel that you would benefit from some sessions with a psychologist. I’m having an informative discussion, and even someone else says there are variations from batch to batch and you can feel the difference even in the same brand and weight. You’re seeing trolls everywhere you look. You have troll goggles on right now. There has got to be other things that occupy your time. We are here talking about why use conventional (and it lead to composition percentages of synthetics). Stop trying to side track us.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
If you don't bother reading the whole post or clicking the link in the post, of course the post may not make sense to you.

So Overkill says all oils are blends, meaning one batch may differ in chemical composition to another, but for our purposes it does not matter because they will perform the same. Ok then.

And I saw a video from Pennzoil's YouTube promoting their Synthetic blend. They said "at least 40% synthetic." Meaning their formulation can vary from batch to batch. But it's nor worth worrying about is what I'm hearing.



There are base oil substitution guidelines. The formulation may vary batch to batch or period to period along these guidelines.

There is truly batch variation. Buy the same stuff for a few OCI and you will "feel it" - if you are a master

Just like fine wine. No sarcasm intended.


No Problem then? All Hunky Dorey?
How bout a real world major player SCANDAL?
Tell that to Ashland (Valvoline) whom ripped XOM (re: Mobil1 ) where Ashland's and contracted independent testing showed M1 5w30 FAILING to meet current ILSAC and API certification guidelines.

This was over a decade ago.


Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

- Ken



You lost me after the no sarcasm sentence.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't use synthetic in any of my vehicles that don't specifically call for it. No need...

But would it last longer and be more mpg efficient with synthetic

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't use synthetic in any of my vehicles that don't specifically call for it. No need...

But would it last longer and be more mpg efficient with synthetic


My '04 Corolla has 350K miles and all I use is cheapo Super Tech dino...that doesn't make much of an argument for synthetic...

 

[Spector]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't use synthetic in any of my vehicles that don't specifically call for it. No need...

But would it last longer and be more mpg efficient with synthetic


My '04 Corolla has 350K miles and all I use is cheapo Super Tech dino...that doesn't make much of an argument for synthetic...



Do you change it every 2-3,000 miles?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Spector
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't use synthetic in any of my vehicles that don't specifically call for it. No need...

But would it last longer and be more mpg efficient with synthetic


My '04 Corolla has 350K miles and all I use is cheapo Super Tech dino...that doesn't make much of an argument for synthetic...



Do you change it every 2-3,000 miles?


No, every 6K...

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: grampi
My '04 Corolla has 350K miles and all I use is cheapo Super Tech dino...that doesn't make much of an argument for synthetic...


Do you change the atf often and if so what do you use?

 

[aquariuscsm]

So according to that chart,has Mobil 1 gone from a group 3 Visom base stock to a group 3 GTL base stock?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: grampi
My '04 Corolla has 350K miles and all I use is cheapo Super Tech dino...that doesn't make much of an argument for synthetic...


Do you change the atf often and if so what do you use?


Every 24K I drain and refill. I use Super Tech ATF...