Why buy conventional if synthetic costs slightly more?

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
I have noticed that conventional oil is only slightly cheaper than synthetic, such as Pennzoil conventional and their synthetic.
So why would anyone buy conventional With the price so close? Even if it’s $10 more, over the OIC, that extra cost would pay for itself in gas mileage as the engine doesn’t “strain” as much with better oil right?


The price difference these days is small, maybe one Starbucks grand something.

The Subaru's require synthetic.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Oildudeny
I thought newer turbocharged cars run coolant thru the turbo for adequate cooling combined with conventional oils it can still handle the job of protecting turbochargers.


Not new-Chrysler did that in the 80s.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I own classic cars that don't like, or need synthetic oils, and there are conventional oils that give more than good enough lubrication for them, they both run quieter and smoother on conventional oils, and i don't see any temperature extremes that would warrant the use of synthetic oils.


What do you mean don’t like? Consistently people here and elsewhere say that Pennzoil Platinum and their Ultra quiets their engine and makes it run smoothly. Less noise means less friction. I think an older car would benefit from that if it’s the same grade the manufacturer calls for.

 

[hatt]

In actual general use I doubt your car will ever notice the difference. Paying a premium for syn is likely just wasting money. Of course with rebates and clearance the syn is usually cheaper so why not.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: hatt
In actual general use I doubt your car will ever notice the difference. Paying a premium for syn is likely just wasting money. Of course with rebates and clearance the syn is usually cheaper so why not.


The Pennzoil synthetics are made from natural gas. The car is noticeably quieter and smoother. Not to diss other synthetics, but others have mixed reviews on bringing more noise or less noise, some Mobil 1 users saying it makes the engine more noisy.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
The Pennzoil synthetics are made from natural gas. The car is noticeably quieter and smoother. Not to diss other synthetics, but others have mixed reviews on bringing more noise or less noise, some Mobil 1 users saying it makes the engine more noisy.

So how does oil made from natural gas make the engine quieter and smoother?

Doesn't ExxonMobil also use synthetic made from natural gas?

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I own classic cars that don't like, or need synthetic oils, and there are conventional oils that give more than good enough lubrication for them, they both run quieter and smoother on conventional oils, and i don't see any temperature extremes that would warrant the use of synthetic oils.


What do you mean don’t like? Consistently people here and elsewhere say that Pennzoil Platinum and their Ultra quiets their engine and makes it run smoothly. Less noise means less friction. I think an older car would benefit from that if it’s the same grade the manufacturer calls for.


In the several old cars i have owned each and every one of them had a quieter valvetrain on dino than synthetic for some odd reason.
If they don't like synthetic oils and prefer thicker Dino oils, which are cheaper, i see no sense in buying a fancy synthetic haha

 

[Leo99]

I use conventional in my older cars. OCI is 5000 miles. Don't see any benefit from synthetic. So, why pay more. Rav4 is using a lot of oil now. Steady diet of blue jug HM ST.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: hatt
In actual general use I doubt your car will ever notice the difference. Paying a premium for syn is likely just wasting money. Of course with rebates and clearance the syn is usually cheaper so why not.


The Pennzoil synthetics are made from natural gas.


SOPUS uses the Fisher-Tropsch method to produce a base oil from methane. This process is less expensive than producing PAO, which used to be the staple of the synthetic oil market. GTL base oils approach the performance of PAO in most areas, thus making them an excellent, lower-cost alternative.

Like SOPUS, Mobil is also using GTL base oils in their products, which has been a part of their roadmap for quite some time as the eventual replacement for their Group III VISOM product, which they've been blending with PAO and other bases to yield the desired level of performance.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
The Pennzoil synthetics are made from natural gas. The car is noticeably quieter and smoother. Not to diss other synthetics, but others have mixed reviews on bringing more noise or less noise, some Mobil 1 users saying it makes the engine more noisy.

So how does oil made from natural gas make the engine quieter and smoother?

Doesn't ExxonMobil also use synthetic made from natural gas?


Just try Pennzoil. My guess is the the natural gas does not carry impurities like a liquid, so the less impurities result in less friction.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Originally Posted By: hatt
In actual general use I doubt your car will ever notice the difference. Paying a premium for syn is likely just wasting money. Of course with rebates and clearance the syn is usually cheaper so why not.


The Pennzoil synthetics are made from natural gas.


SOPUS uses the Fisher-Tropsch method to produce a base oil from methane. This process is less expensive than producing PAO, which used to be the staple of the synthetic oil market. GTL base oils approach the performance of PAO in most areas, thus making them an excellent, lower-cost alternative.

Like SOPUS, Mobil is also using GTL base oils in their products, which has been a part of their roadmap for quite some time as the eventual replacement for their Group III VISOM product, which they've been blending with PAO and other bases to yield the desired level of performance.



Can you give evidence of Mobile 1 being made from natural gas? When Pennzoil came out with oil from gas, there were articles discussing the revolutionary product. I did not see the same for Mobil 1, nor do they even advertise it coming from gas.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I use conventional in my older cars. OCI is 5000 miles. Don't see any benefit from synthetic. So, why pay more. Rav4 is using a lot of oil now. Steady diet of blue jug HM ST.


Not all synthetics are the same. Try the Pennzoil as I have yet to hear someone say it makes more noise.

 

[Ducked]

(a) I have a lot of conventional oil.

(b) I've seen it alleged in various places that "conventional" oil drains down less. I don't know if this is true, but it MIGHT be, and since my car sits unused for long periods, it might be a worthwhile property.

(c) I like old-spec thick oil, for the usual reasons. These may not be as available in synthetic.

(d) Stuff labelled "synthetic" is significantly more expensive in Taiwan.

(e) I don't, in any case, know what "synthetic" means in Taiwan. AFAICT it doesn't mean ANYTHING in the US, and it seems unlikely that Taiwan will adhere to a higher standard.

(f) The test data posted on this site fails to demonstrate any superiority of synthetic based on UOA "wear metals".

 

[StevieC]

Film strength, better cleanliness, less deposit formation, longer OCI's, better cold flow properties is why I would buy Synthetic over conventional.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Just try Pennzoil. My guess is the the natural gas does not carry impurities like a liquid, so the less impurities result in less friction.


That statement doesn't make sense

An oil's performance is not the sole result of the base oil used.

PAO is a "more pure" base than GTL, it's simply more expensive to make, which is why alternatives have been sought. The same goes for POE and other esters, which also have their detractors. Various Group III oils have been produced to seek levels close to PAO's performance, however GTL is even closer.

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Can you give evidence of Mobile 1 being made from natural gas? When Pennzoil came out with oil from gas, there were articles discussing the revolutionary product. I did not see the same for Mobil 1, nor do they even advertise it coming from gas.


It was part of Mobil's roadmap just as long as it was Shell's. The difference is that Shell continued to dump obscene amounts of money into their Pearl facility and thus have been quite active in their advertising.

Regarding evidence, here is an entire thread on it from back when I first noticed it, you'll notice the date on the thread is February 19th, 2016:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028228/1

And a slide from the referenced presentation:

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
I have noticed that conventional oil is only slightly cheaper than synthetic, such as Pennzoil conventional and their synthetic.
So why would anyone buy conventional With the price so close? Even if it’s $10 more, over the OIC, that extra cost would pay for itself in gas mileage as the engine doesn’t “strain” as much with better oil right?


Many synthetic are no longer PAO or diester just highly refined mineral oil.

ILSAC requires "conventional" oils to surpass a synthetic test oil in fuel mileage to meet ILSAC Resource Conserving for light multigrades.

Summming up - "synthetic' doesn't meant what it used to mean over a decade ago. And it sure doesn't mean synthesized from basic, pure building block molecules, either. Just know this.


I like "Good oil"** in whatever form that may be - right now its QSUD.
The old QS Defy with slick 50 10w30 was stellar as a conventional.


** oil my "hard run" engine likes

 

[chunt]

My Frontier that is only driven about 2500 miles a year and gets 6 month OCI's doesn't need Synthetic. And the Mobil Super that I have for it cost less than $1 a quart with Walmart's sale price and Mobil's rebate.

 

[circuitsmith]

While synth costs only slightly more for the DIYer, a synth change by a shop costs substantially more than dino.
And these days DIY is in the minority.
I bet there are lots of 3rd hand BMWs etc. getting dino changes at the quick lube shops.
My previous '06 Matrix got 5w-30 dino.
My current NA GDI will probably get 5w-30 SuperTech synth at its next OCI.

 

[blupupher]

It is getting to where there is little difference between "conventional" and synthetic, and that is the reason for the smaller price gap. Conventional is basically a blend (notice there really are not any blend oils sold anymore) so price is rising with "full syn" staying the same.

For me, I buy on sale/clearance/rebate, so it is whatever is cheapest, conventional or syn.

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants


... and where can I possibly get synthetic for $2 per quart

Watch for sales, clearance, rebates, and price mistakes (and sometimes a combo of them) and you can regularly get syn for the $2/qt range, conventional for $1/qt.

Watch the Sale and Rebate section for deals.

 

[KnicksGiants]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Just try Pennzoil. My guess is the the natural gas does not carry impurities like a liquid, so the less impurities result in less friction.


That statement doesn't make sense

An oil's performance is not the sole result of the base oil used.

PAO is a "more pure" base than GTL, it's simply more expensive to make, which is why alternatives have been sought. The same goes for POE and other esters, which also have their detractors. Various Group III oils have been produced to seek levels close to PAO's performance, however GTL is even closer.

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
Can you give evidence of Mobile 1 being made from natural gas? When Pennzoil came out with oil from gas, there were articles discussing the revolutionary product. I did not see the same for Mobil 1, nor do they even advertise it coming from gas.


It was part of Mobil's roadmap just as long as it was Shell's. The difference is that Shell continued to dump obscene amounts of money into their Pearl facility and thus have been quite active in their advertising.

Regarding evidence, here is an entire thread on it from back when I first noticed it, you'll notice the date on the thread is February 19th, 2016:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028228/1

And a slide from the referenced presentation:


That threadhas it at max it's 70% gtl

 

[SatinSilver]

The shop I go to charges $25 for VWB, $35 for MaxLife syn-blend HM, and $50 for full syn Valvoline with ML tech. Walmart TLE charges $19 for their conventional with QS oil and $45 for Castrol Edge which is a promo. Norm price is $50. I know most guys are diy on here and the price is much closer esp after rebates. But for joe blow public it's a bit different.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KnicksGiants
That threadhas it at max it's 70% gtl


Correct, the remainder of the base is more expensive PAO. You didn't ask for proof of Mobil blending an oil with ONLY GTL, you asked for proof of them using it and I'm a tad confused as why you seem to think that 70% figure is important

It isn't. The document I provided the excerpt from explains the reasoning here. Shell doesn't have a PAO plant, so they'd have it buy PAO from Mobil or some other major who does, which is why before GTL, they were using a hydrocracked Group III product, which they likely still use in their lower tier products, probably blended with GTL, which, in the absence of PAO, is their top offering.

Just to be perfectly clear here: None of the Pennzoil oils are going to be 100% GTL either. There will be carrier for the additive package, the PI package itself....etc, which make up a not insignificant percentage. I can post a picture from one of Mobil's blending guide if that helps you on that front.