why are schaffers and amsoil so unpopular?

[cryptokid]

just about every engine builder i know uses standard synthetic or dino otc oils. no one uses exotic brands like schaffers or amsoil because they say their snake oils. but everyone of them says redline is good stuff, and use it in hipo applications. (royal purple to a limited extent too) if amsoil or schaffers were indeed as good as they say, why doesnt hardly anyone use them? why do no body even know what schaffers is? to me it would seem that engine builders see what goes into an engine and what engines break using what oils, hence tha fact that NO ONE uses frams. this isnt to say amsoil or schaffers are bad, they are most certainly not bad plenty of uoa's to prove that. but why is it that no one uses them i know of? when it comes down to it and i walk the lot at moroso drag strip, i see no amsoil or schaffers bottles. (i see no frams either which must mean atleast most racers are partly informed about lubrication)

 

[Fillherup]

In my case for Schaffers, if not for the forum, I never heard of them. Much less would trust and buy their products,since their web site is pretty weak by todays standards. It is so bad, that you almost take them serious, otherwise they would not be in business from online orders. There is none! But what kills you is the painful buying process, I did buy a case of #131 and #132. Notice the word case. I could not buy a single bottle or get a sample even at a higher price. You really have to trust these products and walkout in faith. For me, close to $100. You just hope that Molakule, Bob or other are not nuts. It took a lot of time and some risk - no online buying, a 800# that quotes you high prices to get you to buy from a local rep, then find and contact a local rep, hard to get a firm price with shipping from the local rep, many calls to get a status from the local rep to check outstandng order( he kept on losing my phone #), and two weeks total to get the complete order. I took it as an experiment and crossed my fingers on the products. The good news, the local rep did hand deliver directly to my house. But a direct ship would had been fine for me. Kind of strange about them kicking Bob off this forum. If not for him, they would never have gotten my order, but I don't think they really care about consumers as a business channel. It seems to more industral, bulk sales focus only. Have you noticed, since Bob left, that Schaffers is mentioned less and less already. He was actually a spokeman for them. They just did not get it. I would call it shooting myself in the foot. I work for a very, large computer company in technical sales. If we had customers like me, I would be rich. Most are not so easy, as me. [ March 19, 2003, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Fillherup ]

 

[Pablo]

Good Question - Just off the top of my head: 1) Shaeffer's just isn't known. Period. 2) "Engine builders, etc" are not tribologists (well some may be, but not many) and really know nothing about lubrication. Some may have run dyno tests and seen some hp gains from synthetics - and yes Redline springs to their minds because it is so heavily marketed to the race folks. 3) Amsoil is used by MANY race people - please investigate the Amsoil site and see all the racing stuff. Amsoil either wins or finishes in the top 10 of most motorcycle events (more supercross), snowmobile and local car races. Unlike the BIG BOYS, Amsoil racers actually use the oil brand that the decal says! 4) I personally have sponsored a Formula SAE car with a mini V8 - they use Amsoil Series 2000 20W-50 and racing grease. 5) In the last 10 years sales of Amsoil products have gained greater than 10% per year - so maybe not so unpopular.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Filler, You are seeing exactly why I do not endorse buying directly from them as it is exactly like you said. This is why I encourgage buying through Tim if all you want is one or two items. Now, if you where to want to buy 250. or more, then I or david can help out. We're still here, just not as pro active as you pointed out. Crypto, with all due resept, the reason for putting a location on the profile helps give people like me an idea of where you might be talking about saying you don't see them there and such. I'd really wish you'd use it as it was desien'd for as we don't use our profiles to be advertise or to be cute. I have no idea what or where phobos anomally is suppose to be and apparently niether does yahoo maps.. Schaeffers is the oldest oil company but due to their marketing strategy, it is very poor for internet marketing and what both of you have to say is correct in my opinion, and this is what we were doing and appears not to set well with them. anyway, have a good one guys. gota go to work.

 

[RTexasF]

"Kind of strange about them kicking Bob off this forum. If not for him, they would never have gotten my order, but I don't think they really care about consumers as a business channel. It seems to more industral, bulk sales focus only". "Have you noticed, since Bob left, that Schaffers is mentioned less and less already. He was actually a spokeman for them. They just did not get it. I would call it shooting myself in the foot". I realize this is off topic but could you briefly explain the above? Guess I've been out to a long lunch.

 

[unDummy]

Why I don't use Schaeffers????? Wallyworld doesn't sell it. I think that 'supply' is the issue with oil popularity. Redline/Amsoil have a pretty decent following and are available online(for those who like to shop online) and at most speed shops(for those who like to overpay but need to touch products prior to purchase). RoyalPurple is at NAPA so I see that their marketing department is actually doing something by getting the product out there somehow.

 

[Scott P]

I never heard of Schaeffers prior to discovering this website. I have never seen them advertised nor has the company been mentioned in any of my other car forums. Does this make it a bad oil? No, of course it doesn't. It just hasn't been marketed as much as other oils. Amsoil is a different story in my opinion. First, my disclaimer: I am signed up as an Amsoil dealer since I figured it would give me some side kick and a few tax deductions. I think Amsoil has a bad reputation due to its own marketing. They tout a 25,000 mile oil change program which really only is applicable to a handful of situations. They are a MLM organization and suffer from the comparisons to Amway and many other money making systems. Don't forget, there is a large contingent of the population that believes that if they can't get something at their local Wal-Mart or Target, then it's not worth having. Also, a lot of people get set in their ways and won't change easily. They see these elite products at their higher prices and pass on them since "oil is oil" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Part of Amsoil's problem is the whole independent dealer thing, so many websites out there touting Amsoil using regurgitated and unsubstantiated claims to bash everyone else but themselves, it ends up reading like the miracle oil additive companies. I think Amsoil has a credibility problem that is only overcome with exposure and research, two things the average consumer isn't going to bother with when Mobil 1 is cheaper and easier to get. Red Line has a much more effective marketing strategy, and is also easier for racers to get since it is available through the same channels as other speed parts. As for Schaeffer's, I dunno about that one, I never heard of it till I came here. From everything I hear, the marketing department there seems to be stuck in the 1950s or something. Cheers, 3MP

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

RTexasF, I sent you a PM.. hope that helps. bob

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by 3 Mad Ponchos: As for Schaeffer's, I dunno about that one, I never heard of it till I came here. From everything I hear, the marketing department there seems to be stuck in the 1950s or something.

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The sad thing about Schaeffer oil is that they've got a product that shows better engine wear than Mobil 1, but at a lower cost, and yet the average person who uses Mobil 1 has never even heard of Schaeffer oil. If it were sold in Walmart alongside Mobil 1, and agressively marketed, it has the potential to make them a TON of money. But yet they'd rather continue doing things the way they are currently doing them. The same could be said for Amsoil too. Put that oil in Walmart, reduce the price to the point where it's just a tick higher than Mobil 1, and market it effectively (without the silliness) and it too could make a lot more sales. It puzzles me why both of these companies do things the way they are doing them now.

 

[jjbula]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman: [QUOTE]QUOTE]The sad thing about Schaeffer oil is that they've got a product that shows better engine wear than Mobil 1, but at a lower cost, and yet the average person who uses Mobil 1 has never even heard of Schaeffer oil. If it were sold in Walmart alongside Mobil 1, and agressively marketed, it has the potential to make them a TON of money. But yet they'd rather continue doing things the way they are currently doing them. The same could be said for Amsoil too. Put that oil in Walmart, reduce the price to the point where it's just a tick higher than Mobil 1, and market it effectively (without the silliness) and it too could make a lot more sales. It puzzles me why both of these companies do things the way they are doing them now.

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Amen, Patman.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Nah, I'm glad some companies stay small. Bigger isn't always better. They tend to lose touch and then the bean counters take over. Mobil-1 could be much better but they are so worried about making the price point at wally-world.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Troxell: Nah, I'm glad some companies stay small. Bigger isn't always better. They tend to lose touch and then the bean counters take over. Mobil-1 could be much better but they are so worried about making the price point at wally-world.

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That's a good point Jason. Perhaps Amsoil and Schaeffer oil need to be similar to Royal Purple or Redline then, who are both available in many speed shops and places like NAPA (RP is anyways). So perhaps if these oils were offered up perhaps not at Walmart and Kmart, but maybe at Pepboys, Autozone, NAPA and Carquest for instance, it would allow them to hit a bigger market, but without having to lower their costs too much like they would with Walmart.

 

[slickracer]

I would use Schaeffers without a doubt if it was more available, but I just don't feel it is worth the trouble to order.

 

[Mystic]

I first heard of Shaeffer's Oil after visiting this web site. After all the good stuff that was said about the oil, I sent an email to a distributor in my state. I never even received a reply. I think these people probably sell mostly to industry and large organizations and largely ignore ordinary people. I learned about Auto-RX at this web site and I bought some. Frank of Auto-RX is really great and I would recommend Auto-RX to anybody. Even somebody with a new car or truck or SUV could use Auto-RX to keep their engine clean. I was thinking about using Shaeffer's oil but since I can't even receive a reply to my email I will continue to use Mystik oil, or else Castrol GTX, Chevron, or maybe Mobil 1 after my engine gets cleaned up.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

The sad part of this Mistic is that I along with a few select Schaeffers reps do care and do answer emails and will sell it. This is the major problem with schaeffers as pointed out is they are not people orientated so much when it comes to the internet. I don't believe Schaeffers themselves would like to have this type of rep but because they rely on the high end producers to run their district, many don't want, nor take the time to handle such small requests. Anyway, If you or anyone else wants schaeffers, it is completely available and easy to obtain, just have to either email me or call Tim for any single item orders on his toll free #. Just because we have a select few that don't work on the internet, please don't hold schaeffers actions as mine, because you can get very good service from us. Another reason to deal with us on this site instead of learing about scheffers here, us paying for the site and all, then going to some "local" rep that has no interest in what we have done and he ends up selling when all the work is done by us.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by slickracer: I would use Schaeffers without a doubt if it was more available, but I just don't feel it is worth the trouble to order.

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The sad thing is, this is one of the main reasons I'm switching my car from Schaeffer oil. There is nobody in Ontario who sells it, so I need to have it shipped from the other side of Canada, and nobody is ever home at my house during the day, so getting stuff shipped to me becomes a major hassle. And I hate having to pay $30 extra for shipping too. (I will also readily admit that another big factor in my switching is my desire to try out a slightly thicker oil, in this case the 0w30 Formula SLX which is a very thick 30wt oil)

 

[twb]

Geez, I feel sorry for a lot of you. When I need some Schaeffer's products I just call my local rep and he delivers it to my house within a day or two. He delivered the side of beef I bought from him too! Since I'm finally replying to this thread, I just gotta point out that Schaeffer's market focus is strictly commercial; truckers, farmers, that sort of thing. I don't think Mobil, et al has nearly the variety of specialized lubricants that Schaeffer's has. You wouldn't believe the whole different set of marketing issues between retail and wholesale/commercial. I tend to believe that if Schaeffer's did get into the retail business, quality might go down and prices up. I'm happy with the way things are right now.

 

[medic]

quote:

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Originally posted by 3 Mad Ponchos: I think Amsoil has a credibility problem that is only overcome with exposure and research, two things the average consumer isn't going to bother with when Mobil 1 is cheaper and easier to get.

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I agree to a point. I initially thought about becoming an Amsoil dealer, but after reading more and more that it doesn't hold up to the claim of 12 months / 25,000 miles without a bypass filter I decided I would run it in my truck for a while and then decide if I want to try to sell it. As far as Mobil 1 being cheaper - My dad had me order him some Amsoil via my preferred customer account because it was cheaper than he had been paying for Mobil 1 and he considers it to be a better oil. Shaeffer's - I'm with everybody else. I never heard of it until I came to this site. Sounds to be a very good line of oils at a good price, but not readily available at all.

 

[Rebel Rouser]

I, too had never heard of Schaeffers until I read this forum. I had never heard of Amsoil either until I was on the internet. I thought I'd try Amsoil in my personal vehicles and have a preferred customer account, but I'm going to let my status expire when it's up. Although their lubricants are quality, there are IMO, others more readily available that are just as good and more cost effective. One must remember shipping costs when mail ordering, oil is heavy and costs add up in the shipping dept. My experience with Amsoil has been slow shipping and they don't even routinely provide tracking information for you. And for $20 a year, I can do without their monthly propaganda publication. I have no intention of hopping on the pyramid and peddling their products. Most consumers have no liking for multi-level marketeers. I have seen a limited amount of Amsoil products at the local NAPA, but they are priced extemely high, compared to "dealer" price sheets. It would surprise me if the stock moves at all. Personally, I can see a benefit to running synthetic lubes in transmissions, transaxles, and differentials. But the more I read here, I doubt there's much benefit to running expensive Amsoil in the crankcase. It isn't going to make my vehicle worth any more.