Why are minivans and pickups so bad in icy driving

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Driving today in extremely icy conditions in my Acura MDX the only vehicles to fling off the road x 7 were pickup trucks including 3 rollovers onto roof (newish Tundra, Dakota, Colorado) in the same general area. Do they lack any saftety standards in terms of rollover protection or stability control?

It was so icy a state trooper on foot fell over and went sliding down into median. The other vehcicle I kept creeping around on a steep hill(5mph!!!) were stuck were Honda Ody and Toyota Sienna's. One Honda Ody actually had winter tires I could see (Michelin X-Ice). Are minivans dreadful loaded in traction?

The other useless vehicle is Prius(tires?)

Interestingly the AWD vehicles including my own had little issue except for occasional kick doing this stuff. The FWD cars with lots of spinning did it.
 
My olds silhouette did great on all seasons. They were around a 205/75/15.

I think it's the idiot drivers. You can't feel the road with all the nannies.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
My olds silhouette did great on all seasons. They were around a 205/75/15.

I think it's the idiot drivers. You can't feel the road with all the nannies.


We have an old Pontiac Montana with the same tires and traction control. It works very well on snow and ice.
 
The minivans were loaded likely with kids(why drive one otherwise) and ski gear etc beyond the 15-20% road grade. I wonder if that mucks up the balance. Eg if rear heavy on a hill the FWD minivan spin. My MDX I noticed on AWD indicator was pushing majority of torque to rear wheels not front.
 
Pickups are often RWD, but have very little weight over the rear wheels. That's why you'll often see people with pickups put sand bags over the rear axial to get more weight pressing down on the tires.

Someone once told me that minivans have a weight distribution problem too. Specifically, when going up an incline, the weight transfers to the rear wheels leaving the front wheels struggling to get a grip. I don't know if there's any truth to that. Since I don't have a minivan, so I've never really given it much thought. But every time I've gotten a minivan stuck or lost traction while driving one, it's been when trying to go up an incline.
 
Originally Posted By: sicko
Someone once told me that minivans have a weight distribution problem too. Specifically, when going up an incline, the weight transfers to the rear wheels leaving the front wheels struggling to get a grip. I don't know if there's any truth to that. Since I don't have a minivan, so I've never really given it much thought. But every time I've gotten a minivan stuck or lost traction while driving one, it's been when trying to go up an incline.


Not just minivans but all FWD vehicles. It's one of the dirty little secrets about FWD.
 
Originally Posted By: tmorris1
Originally Posted By: eljefino
My olds silhouette did great on all seasons. They were around a 205/75/15.

I think it's the idiot drivers. You can't feel the road with all the nannies.


We have an old Pontiac Montana with the same tires and traction control. It works very well on snow and ice.


Originally Posted By: fisher83
I think it has more to do with the driver than the car. My Caravan does great in snow and ice.



those are both FWD vans. but of course so are the ones the Op mentioned. (sorry most of my minivan experience is with older RWD models, Aerostars and Astros/Safari's)
was there any kind of cross wind? the sides of vans(mini or otherwise) can act like sails in even moderate winds.
they also can be...not quite top heavy, but higher center of gravity... a little tippy.

but the most limiting factor in all is the driver.

My Father spent MANY winters across OH,IN,&MI in RWD Ford Aerostars usually with all the seats out, and empty, (retail district manager,transferring product from store to store) with no wrecks, and no real time in the Ditch.


but yeah, with the trucks, it's a combo of the Higher center of gravity, very little weight over the drive wheels, and drivers being over confident in their 4x4 systems(if so equipped) on poor condition roads. you can spin 4 wheels just as easy as 2 on ice.
 
My various minivans have been just fine in snow/ice. Tires are important but driver skill is more so. I grew up and learned to drive in northern Michigan, where winter was as much as -30f and when it warmed up to 0f it snowed, some winters as much as 9'. After a storm the roads were plowed out to the ditches. My favorite sport was spinning and sliding my 41 chevy all over the road. From age 16 to 19 I developed very good energy management, and it was a lot of fun!
 
Just for grins and hahas, I started to pay attention to the cars that were police taped up on the side of the road last time it iced here.

Tacoma: thought it was a 4X4. It was a Pre-Runner. I guess that Rear diff lock doesn't help

BMW: White 5-er. Probably a 3rd plus owner driving with Chinese tires.

Mustang: No surprise. My'96 was awful in slippery stuff

Avalanche: Thought it was a Z-71 but as I passed I noticed that it had Z-66 on the 1/4 panel.

Infiniti G-coupe: Stanced, Stretched tires over wide chrome Ghetto dumb-dumb wheels.

F-150. Wadded it good and proper into the embankment. Surprised it was still upright.

and one front wheel drive car. A fairly new Hyundai Elantra.
 
The minivans, I have no clue. Anything FWD should generally be quite brilliant in inclement conditions. My father drove his Caravan in the Sierras skiing in plenty of bad weather with no hint of traction issues. Actually the only time we had any troubles whatsoever was when we had AWD...gave him overconfidence.

Trucks I can understand...little weight over the rear, and (if equipped) a 4x4 biased towards off-roading rather than snowy stuff.

I have very little experience in bad weather, yet I have not wanted for more than FWD in my cars when I hit it. The Echo, with it's compliant suspension, is especially forgiving.

I did have to work my Mustang when she and I got caught in some snow...it was light powder, fairly wet powder piled about a foot high, so lateral control wasn't the issue, I just had to control momentum.

Anything will get through snow given some common sense. How did folks do it 50+ years ago?
 
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Interesting as my parents have an incline to get into their garage in Toledo. My old 88 Olds Toronado was FWD and could climb the hill on icy conditions without spinning. My Mom had a 01 Lexus LS400 RWD with traction control and no matter what she did if it was icy she was not making it up the hill. Both vehicles had performance tires not well suited for winter driving but the FWD made it up the hill with ease.
 
more than likely driver error. FWD is generally decent in slippery weather. I prefer a RWD vehicle in the snow as it is more predictable and easier to correct imo.

We got quite a bit of snow last month for Indiana. We had a couple 8-10" snowfalls and i never once put the silverado in 4wd to get around. only to pull out stuck motorists. Granted my tires are brand new and i have a fiberglass cap and a couple hundred pounds of tools in the back. Most people get in trouble in slippery conditions because they simply cannot drive in it. They wait to long to slow down, they hit the brakes abruptly and then panic when they start to slide. Many also try to accelerate quickly and end up loosing control if they are not halfway experienced with a power-slide. People also do not plan ahead. If im turning into a lot or another road i keep enough momentum to not get stuck, but not so much that i will slide. snow driving takes a little more skill, and some simply aren't great at it. most snow/ice accidents happen from lack of slick weather driving experience/skills.
 
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Our Honda Odyssey van (nothing "mini..." about it ) on Nokian winter tires is a tank in winter conditions... FWD works very well in snow and ice with good tires. And I have never had a problem on any hills, ever.

My AWD Subaru on winter tires is better in some respects, but worse in others... getting moving is fantastic, but staying in control once going is harder... the car can, and will spin with too much throttle... and feels much less stable at higher speeds on slippery roads. The van is rock solid... if the front tires spin, just lift off the throttle...
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08


Not just minivans but all FWD vehicles. It's one of the dirty little secrets about FWD.


It must be the weight balance does not work well on icy hills from stop when loaded especially minivans despite what tires you have.

Beyond the minivans I noticed an older FWD Highlander, FWD CRV and brand new FWD Escape all somewhat loaded(ski's on roof) that just spun away. The traffic was creeping 2-5MPH up sheer ice. The reality was my MDX(normally 70F/30R torque) did not move very well either for a second from stop until it kicked the power to rear either on the SH-AWD display.

On driver skill the smart FWD(civic) and RWD drivers(old BMW 7 series) did not stop! They went up the break down lane to keep forward motion.

Interestingly the RWD pickups, RWD vans, and older BMW 5 series and 7 series seem to slip very little.
 
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