My Dad had an 82 Cutlass Supreme that had the antenna is the windshield as well. I drove it for a few years - loved that car, still have it waiting for me to fix up once I have the time to do so - anyhow, the reception was usually fine unless you had the windshield wipers on. Seems that the movement of the blades disrupted the signal, so every pass of the blade, a loud burst of static would occur...not the best feature if you live where it rains a lot (Victoria BC).
Whoopeeee + .001 mpg
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The Malibu Hybrid is a mild Hybrid, meaning it can't run solely on electric power. While it doesn't give you the gains of a dual-mode hybrid, it's cost is significantly cheaper and it can be installed on a number of vehicles easily. If you factor in the extra cost of the Honda or Toyota hybrids it negates any fuel saving for many, many miles. Now that's pathetic for something that's hyped as the Prius is.
The two-mode hybrids are about a year away, the system has been in-use for years in buses and will be available in GMs, Daimler-Chryslers and BMWs soon.
-T
I don't follow your logic. How "many many miles" does it take to recover the additional cost of a Prius hybrid that gets 48mpg in mixed driving at $3 a gallon versus a normal mid size car? GMs "mild hibrid" isn't even that. Its just a 'me too' attempt to put a hybrid logo on the back of a few rental cars. The honda civic is a real mild hibrid. GMs technology is too little too late... as usual. About 8 years to be exact.
[ September 17, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: jtantare ]
[ September 17, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: jtantare ]
In my own opinion, there is not a car on the planet that couldn't benefit from 270 HP. I'm willing to pay the insurance and gas.
Yeah, the AM stations (too many) haven't kept up with the times. And, frankly, the AM section in factory and aftermarket radios is generally lousy. The DELCOs from the mid-late '60's through the 1970's tended to have the best reception, definitely outclassing the majority of todays.
AM was -- and occasionally still is -- a real pleasure to listen to, distant stations on a long nights drive.
AM was -- and occasionally still is -- a real pleasure to listen to, distant stations on a long nights drive.
Counterpoint: I hear you, in fact my G35 sedan puts out about that level of hp, and yep, it'[s a blast to drive. On the other hand, while I do like the performance, I have to admit that as I drive away from the gas station (done alarmingly often) I'm pretty envious of my friends with their 4 cyl Accords and Camrys which go about 100 miles further on each tank gas. Ouch.
Since there is no non Hyrbid Prius it's hard to calculate the true cost, no one else makes a midsize car with so little power.
However if you look at the cost of the Hybrid, which adds around $5000, it would take a lot of gas to make that back. At $2.50 a gallon(I won't use $3, because it was never that high here) that's 2000 gallons. Comparing a 30mpg av. vehicle with a 50% improvement means it gets 45. At that rate it would take almost 200,000 miles before it pays of the system. Now consider the 30mpg car with a 10% increase to 33, but the system only costs $1500(maybe more or less, but considerably cheaper). It would then take about 100,000 to pay off that cost. Obviously this is an example, but anyone should be able to see the reasoning.
-T
Well it hit $3 here, and the Prius gets 48 mpg according to the owners. A prius costs $21k. A comperable Camry is $19k. The Camry gets 28mpg in combined city and highway driving. So the question is are you willing to pay another $2k for a 71% improvement in fuel economy?
Some simplistic number scratching shows that would pay back your $3k in 45,000 miles.
Camry is bigger -on the outside, not inside where it counts. Nicer? Maybe if you go to the Camry XLE version but not if you compare the base model. Faster? Speed limit is the same on the road for both, speed limiter on the Prius and Camry both kick in at 105, and both can reach that speed with out any problem. When you're stuck in urban traffic and both are going 0 mph, at least the Prius knows enough to shut itself off and not waste gas.
T-Keith:
Usually you're right on the money, but not on this one. If you go look at the numbers at Toyota.com, you'll see that the Prius is much closer to the Camry in all pertinent dimensions, wheelbase, and cabin volume in particular ( check it here). I think it's the Prius's odd proportions that make people think that it's a Corolla sized car, when in fact, it's not. If you approximate a "scale" between the Corolla and Camry, the Prius might be only 20% or less of the way down as you descend to Corolla size. Now as to performance, that's another matter.
EDIT: Oh yeah, as to "niceness" in some configurations, the Prius can outdo the Camry. You can get a Prius with self-leveling HID headlights, not avail on any Camry. You can get a voice activated nav, avail on top Camrys only, and so forth. The Prius is no slacker on accomodations.
74 chev p/u had one .
The Prius may have a high resale value now but those battery packs only have an 8 yr warranty.
What do you think it will be worth at 7 years?
The Camry will be worth a lot more than the Prius in resale value in 7 or 8 years.
What do you think it will be worth at 7 years?
The Camry will be worth a lot more than the Prius in resale value in 7 or 8 years.
Roughly the price of a Camry minus the cost of 7/8 of a battery pack. I suspect a battery pack is going to be big hunk of money.
Anyone venture a guess about the price of gas 7 years from now? That battery pack replacement may be insignificant if the rest of the car is in good shape, but who knows if the battery pack will be in need of replacement? Toyota warrants their engines in ICE cars for 60,000 miles but most go 150,000+. Just maybe that battery pack will go 200,000 miles or more. It's too early to tell, but I have not heard of one dying yet even on the gen.1 Prius.
Granted the first two qualities are a little subjective, but my point was that a $19k Camry is not exactly a $21k Prius. It's a smart move by Toyota. Unlike Honda where the cost of the Hybrids are easily recognized, the Pruis hides this by providing a body style not available in NA, but with qualities that Hybrid buyers may like. I'd love to see what a 4 cylinder Camry could do to a Pruis at a race track, obviously the tall, narrow tires Prius would not do well.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
T-Keith:
Usually you're right on the money, but not on this one. If you go look at the numbers at Toyota.com, you'll see that the Prius is much closer to the Camry in all pertinent dimensions, wheelbase, and cabin volume in particular ( check it here). I think it's the Prius's odd proportions that make people think that it's a Corolla sized car, when in fact, it's not. If you approximate a "scale" between the Corolla and Camry, the Prius might be only 20% or less of the way down as you descend to Corolla size. Now as to performance, that's another matter.
EDIT: Oh yeah, as to "niceness" in some configurations, the Prius can outdo the Camry. You can get a Prius with self-leveling HID headlights, not avail on any Camry. You can get a voice activated nav, avail on top Camrys only, and so forth. The Prius is no slacker on accomodations.
While power may not matter to some, it's important to a lot of people.(Otherwise the 1.5 Pruis engine would be available straight up on the Camry.
There is lot more to life than "need".
The only thing better is if they had 300hp.
I can see making lower power and more economical engines available for those that want them. But I can't see eliminating the higher power models for people willing to pay for them...
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