Who is running conventional oil?

[Patman]

And for those of you that do run it, how many of you are going to be getting oil analysis done? I notice that we don't have any data on conventional oils in our oil analysis section, and with the new SL oils being so improved it would be interesting to see how they perform.

 

[Johnny]

dragboat - THANK YOU! 1989 Mazda 626 Turbo - Pennzoil 10W30. Just sold the car with 156,000 miles on it. No oil consumption and the turbo worked just fine. 1993 Chevrolet Cavalier - Pennzoil 10W30. Car has 136,000 miles on it with no oil consumption and after removing the valve cover for a leaking gasket this morning, the top of the cylinder head was as clean as can be. 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix - Pennzoil 10W30. Car has 46,000 miles on it. No oil consumption. ALL OF THE ABOVE RECEIVE AN OIL CHANGE AT 4,000 MILES. 2000 VW Eurovan - Pennzoil 5W40 European (Group III synthetic/dino). Van has 36,000 miles on it. No oil consumption. Change oil at 5,000 mile services at the dealer. I WILL HAVE TERRY DYSON DO ANALYSIS AT THE NEXT OIL CHANGE. [ June 29, 2002, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]

 

[icruse]

dragboat, what weight Pennzoil are you using? I haved used Amsoil and Mobil 1 (more) here in northern Minnesota since around 89, but I am heavily leaning in going with Havoline or Pennzoil 5W30 and changing every 5000. The newest SL looks to have closed the gap to be better than good enough to do this. And with the HIGHER prices (Mobil 1 went from 3.39 a quart to 4.79) I also like value. Thanks Good Day, Steven P.S. Also looking into Schaeffers.

 

[Patman]

That's just the thing now, with conventional oil getting so much better, and still being less than $2 a quart, it might make more sense for some people's driving habits to simply use this stuff and do 5k oil changes than to try and run a synthetic and go longer. I guess once we start seeing the oil analysis data we'll know for sure if the new SL dino oils can go 5k without degrading too much.

 

[csandste]

I'm continuing to do the SuperTech $11.94 special. When I chose this route I did so knowing that SuperTech oil filters were pretty good (I demand these be substituted for Fram) and believing that SuperTech oil was identical to Quaker State. Since then I found out from Johnny that it is a separate blending plant owned by PZ/QS. I continued with it since the SJ spec. sheet was as good as the average dino. oil and better than quite a few name brand SL's (although not as good as Pennzoil or Chevron). I also think there's some advantage in using bottled oil as opposed to bulk. I change my Elantra with a 4K cycle and will do so until the power train warranty runs out. I do 5K changes on my wife's Cavalier and will continue to do so since the filter's such a bugger to get at. I could go back to changing my daughter's high mileage Topaz if I wanted to since that's a real easy filter to get at. Notice that SuperTech now has a high mileage oil selling for a bit over a buck. Would like to see the spec. sheets on that. Not even sure if that (or their synethetic for that matter) is made by Specialty in Shreveport. I realize that Wal-Mart holds the brand name and could switch suppliers at any time, but don't really think they'd risk things by going to a really crappy oil-- mediocre oil is another matter, but don't really think the risks are that great on any oil that meets the SL/GF 3 standard. Wal-Mart's advantages over Jiffy Lube or other quick lube places: 1. Bottled oil for $11.94 change.] 2. Less likely to try to force unneeded maintenance schemes like pulling the battery out of your car (are these largely urban myths?) 3. Interchangable techs. which may be boobs, although I still think most dealerships don't have the sharpest tacks in the box doing oil changes. One of the local Wal-Marts does have a real knowledgable tire guy who has solved initial balance problems on my tires. Some of the Edmunds posts of a year ago were full of on-going balance problems that dealers had trouble solving.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by csandste: I'm continuing to do the SuperTech $11.94 special. When I chose this route I did so knowing that SuperTech oil filters were pretty good (I demand these be substituted for Fram) and believing that SuperTech oil was identical to Quaker State.

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I've read a lot of your posts on the Edmund's board, and I was hoping you would see this thread. Would you ever consider doing an oil analysis on that oil at the end of the 4k interval? If you found out it could go 5 or even 6k would you switch to that interval instead? I guess I'm kinda looking for a guinea pig to test the waters to see how far the new SL conventional oils can be pushed. I can't really do this test in my car since I've already started using Maxlife, with moly in it, so any future oil analysis results would be tainted anyways, since the moly that's left behind could make a mediocre oil look much better on paper. But someone who has always done regular conventional oil changes could really get true analysis results.

 

[csandste]

I was considering getting a test done at 4K anyway. Very well might do it this time.

 

[dragboat]

icruse, That Cavalier never had anything but the 10/30. Have run it to 5k many times on the older SH/SJ designation. It has been so long ago it might have been the SE designation when the car was new Patman, Depending on the use and motor design the SL Pennzoil will go 5k no problem Johnny your welcome,After much debate on the new car we spoke about 10/30 SL Purebase won the coin toss today. If the older type oil ran that Cavalier that far,this new base will make this motor out last the usefullness of the new car. Heck,in 12-13 years this 33 mpg car will be a gas hog compared to what will be available then. The other 6 cars in the family was changed to the Purebase 10/30 as well except two,the Mercury with the 302 is now running the HD Pennzoil designed for the Diesels and the 800 hp weekend Corvette has something far different in it to keep it alive. Guys I am not a Pennzoil salesman thing is I have seen first hand what it can do in terms of protection and keeping an engine clean and running a long time and they are here to stay,,they seem untouchable in terms of buyouts ect. Knock on wood [ June 29, 2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat: Guys I am not a Pennzoil salesman thing is I have seen first hand what it can do in terms of protection and keeping an engine clean and running a long time and they are here to stay,,they seem untouchable in terms of buyouts ect. Knock on wood [/QB]

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Now let me see if we are talking about the same Pennzoil-Quaker State Oil Co. Pennzoil bought the Specialty Oil Co. of Shreveport, LA a few years ago, who manufactured the Itasca Synthetic Outboard engine oil. Now Pennzoil only sells the synthetic blend. Where did the full syn. go? The other half of this marriage bought the Petrolon Company of Houston, Texas. Sold a product called Slick-50. Then started packaging a bottle with 5 quarts of Quaker State oil. Also put it in those great Fram filters, man, Slick-50 and Fram. This is sold by the Mother Company, Pennzoil-Quaker State. Now where did the FTC step in and fine them for false advertising? Was it more than once? Of course with over 50% of the market and $200 million yearly in Slick-50 they don't mind a paltry fine. Great Company, that's why I won't touch either Quaker State or Pennzoil. I don't want any PTFE floating in my oil passages and clogging.

 

[dragboat]

I use the dino in everything around here at my place. I am not going to have it analyzed just because the for example 185k mile Cavalier that has had Pennzoil all it's life is a good enough real world analysis for me. The new Pennzoil has got to be better than the formulation that tokk the car this far

 

[Johnny]

59 Vetteman: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please be sure to state things correct. 1. Pennzoil did not buy Speciality Oil Company, Quaker State did some 6 years ago. When Pennzoil bought Quaker State, Speciality came with it. Yes Speciality use to make Itasca Synthetic Outboard oil. We did away with the entire Itasca line of products because we already made our line of outboard products, including our synthetic blend. (Business decision) 2. You are correct about Quaker State purchasing Petrolon several years ago, and it was Quaker State that the FTC jumped on, not Pennzoil. Since Pennzoil purchased Quaker State the FTC has not had any problems with us because we changed the form of advertising. As for as plugging your oil passages, that was the old stuff that Petrolon made. Remember when it use to say shake well before using. Well, we have done with the PTFE what Schaeffer's did with Moly. Made it soluble so it will not plug oil passages. I will tell you that I do not agree with the Slick 50 bonding theory and I do not use or sell the product. But as you said, someone is. If some one ask me about the product, my opinion is it won't help and it won't hurt. As for as the special packaging with Quaker State oil, Slick 50, and FRAM filter, Quaker State started that years ago. Great marketing idea if you ask me. 3. No one has to worry about having PTFE floating in their oil passages and clogging because they decide to use Pennzoil or Quaker State. It's not in the oil. I know we cannot please eveyone. That's why there are different brands of oil, cars, soap, toothpaste, etc. Everyone has their reasons for choosing one brand or another. I appreciate good loyal customers like dragboat, and I can assure you we will never do anything to let customers like this down. I will also say if one is going to be a moderator on a website they should not use it as a bully pulpit to blast another product.

 

[Bio-T]

Johnny, Sorry for the info on the 2-cycle, yes it was Quaker State that bought the Specialty Oil Co. Now if Quaker State had such a good reputation why did Pennzoil want to be associated with it? A moderator on a board is nothing more than a Human person entitled to his/her opinions and they are to be agreed/disagreed with just as anyone else. In fact your knowledge of oil is leaps and bounds above mine and I respect your knowledge on those points. But I don't agree with Amsoil and some of the things they do, just as I don't agree with Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. and some of the things they do/did. I was disagreeing with the Company, not the product other than Slick-50 and I think that has been documented enough.

 

[csandste]

1. I can understand the sneering about Slick50 and the Fram association, but the acquisition of Specialty and Itasca 2 stroke oil escapes me. Since I am using SuperTech oil, I'm curious. 2. Johnny, can you give some idea of how the Shell buyout is playing out? I assume things are still on track. Will Shell's motor oil brands remain separate? 3. I may have posted something similar before, but how does PZ/QS relate to the old mystique of "Pennsylvania" oils. This seems to have had both positive and negative ramifications. When I was a kid in South Dakota in the fifties, we were always taught that Pennsylvania oils were superior in lubricating ability. I've also heard the bit about Quaker State (especially) plugging things up because of high paraffin. Are there any such things as "Pennsylvania" oils anymore? I imagine your base stocks come from a wide variety of places since the corporation is now Texas based. Sorry I'm contributing to the continued drift of this topic.

 

[csandste]

To Dragboat... "The moderator has also blasted Fram oil filters on heresay in my opinion unless he can post an bad experience he personally has had with a Fram oil filter his statement falls under the other thread I had posted but now should include oil filters.." Truth is everyone has blasted Fram for crappy oil filters. I am still impressed by the fact that since they completely dominate the market, there must be lots of people out there who use Fram. If you're one of these, I'd really like to hear from you over on the Fram Users post in the filters forum. There have got to be people out there who use and have good luck with Fram. I also keep hearing reference to a Consumers Report study which gave Frams high marks. Even though I use Champion Labs filters, people should remember that original versions of the MiniMopar study were almost as critical of Champion as Fram and that the author deleted some references to Champion Labs filters because he was threatened by their attorneys. I do find that some of his complaints-- rusty end plates and thin media-- have been changed, while Fram seems the same.

 

[Bror Jace]

I have to say that while I agreed with much of what 59 VetteMan had to say about Slick-50 and other PTFE products, I appreciated Johnny's rebuttal about the various mergers, acquisitions and other corporate shenanigans. We don't always like every move made by our corporate parents. Unfortunately the market supports some seriously dumb products ... mostly because dumb, unthinking people will buy them. I remember when I worked for a small division of Pepsi that used to supply food to Pizza Hut, KFC and Taco Bell, there was a rumor that Pepsi was going to buy Burger King. The official response from corporate HQ was that they were #1 in pizza franchises, #1 in chicken franchises, #1 in mexican fast food and they didn't want to be #2 in burger franchises. Gee, ya think Pepsi spent a little too much time being #2 to Coke and now they have a complex? Anyway, I wouldn't use a PTFE-based product in my car if you GAVE it to me. But I have to admit I've used it in the past. And about being a moderator, I think if this were a much larger board with many hundreds of members, a moderator may be asked to be more nuetral. But with only a few dozen REALLY active participants, I think that's too much to ask.

 

[csandste]

Agree with Bror Jace about moderator. Pat on the sedans board of Edmunds was totally a moderator and spent all of her time making people behave and deleting any contentious posts. Other Edmunds moderators that posted their views made for a much more interesting forum. So go at it, Johnny is easily able to stand up for himself and Pennzoil...

 

[Johnny]

59 Vetteman: Why did Pennzoil want to be associated with Quaker State? Let me try to answer that question by starting with a little history. From 1965 to 1985, Quaker State was the number one selling oil in America. In 1985 Pennzoil took that position away from Quaker State and has maintained it to this date. Since that time the market share ratings have been Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, and a toss up between Castrol and Havoline. So we eliminated our number one competitor and now we have the number one and two market share rating. Made the shareholders very happy. Now since becoming the Pennzoil-Quaker State Company, we have become one of the leading automotive aftermarket consumer care products companies in the country. Let me give you a list of the companies we now own. I believe you will know most of them. 1. Gumout: One of the leading fuel additives in the country. 2. Medo Air Freshners: #1 market share in this catagory. 3. Axius Products: Makes sun protectors, window tint film, steering wheel covers, auto organizers and winter windshield covers. 95% market share in sun protection catagory. 4. Black Magic Products: One of the leaders in the tire and wheel cleaner catagory. 5. Fix-A-Flat Products: 69% market share in this catagory. 5. The Outlaw: Fuel system cleaners and octane boosters. This is a growing brand. 6. Rain X Products: 90% market share in this catagory. 7. Slick 50: I know you don't like it, but it is number one in this catagory with over 50% market share. 8. SNAP Products: Price value brand fuel additives. 10% market share. 9. Westley's Products: Wheel and tire cleaners. 10% market share. 10. Blue Coral Products: Waxes, polishes, and protectants for vehicle, home and commerical use. 10% market share. The bottom line is profits. This is what drives any successful company. You are either the lead dog or you eat the big dogs dust. It's that simple.

 

[MolaKule]

A moderator is a people too and can have and should share his opinions as well. Vetteman and others do a magnificent job keeping the Bearings lubed here. Highest quality list i've seen so far. Regarding Slick-50; simply a slick marketing tool. The reason it caught people up was because it was introduced right after the Teflon fat literally hit the frying pans. PTFE was slick on the frying pan, why not in lubes? Here's the Slick facts: Teflon (PTFE) is only good as a SOLID lubricant and well below its softening temps. PTFE is often molded into a journal bearing shape or sintered into other mixes as a bearing. Teflon is NOT polar and has no natural afinnity to metals. Technically speaking, it is not equitable to compare the MoTDC with Teflon, colloidal or not. In order for Teflon to be used as solid lubricant, say in a cylinder, the metal or surface to be treated must be heated well above PTFE's gas phase in order for it to bond, and then only under high electrostatic (high electrical field) conditions. In a piston/ring situation, if the rings were made of metal, and the liner coated with PTFE, the PTFE coating would get sheared rather quickly. PTFE is used in medical (transfusion) pumps and devices because it is so highly inert (as long as it stays in its solid phase).

 

[SteveD2]

Getting back to the topic ... Had my local dealer do the last oil change - didn't ask for anything special and got 10W-30 GTX. Somewhere between 2.5k and 3.0k I'll change it again (or get it changed ). [ July 01, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: harry31 ]

 

[Johnny]

csandste: Shell deal still on. Probably somewhere around October 1st. The oil brands should remain seperate. MolaKule: I could not agree with you more about PTFE. I sold against it for years. 59Vetteman: The next time I'm in Russellville, AR, we are going to set on you back porch and drink sweet ice tea and eat some good southern fried chicken. harry31: Great idea. Back to the topic.