Who here uses a torque wrench on the cv axle nut?

[Astro14]

I follow factory service procedures.

If that involves a torque value, then, absolutely, I use a torque wrench.

Exceeding that torque value may, or may not, cause damage.

“It’s not going anywhere” completely ignores that fact, and is a lame excuse for sloppy work.

 

[DougR]

The range on my torque wrench isn't high enough. My 200 lbs body weight applied at 18 inches on a 3/4-inch breaker bar produces 300 ft-lbs of torque. I use a jack stand to support the swivel end of the breaker bar. The breaker bar could flex, or one could lose balance, so I've been very careful in the 3 times I've used this method. Next time, I'll probably fabricate a bracket for extra safety.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I just lower the car close to the ground so the bar can bear against that, rather than needing someone to hold it.

That’s a good idea I actually hadn’t really considered that ever. My problem is I’m not strong enough to even push a torque wrench to that amount of foot pounds so even if I did I’d still have to get assistance. Besides the one guy at my dealership I don’t know anyone else besides people here that torque the axle nuts. When I was in school they are like tighten it till it stops then do one more snug then stake it and it’s good to go that’s what I’ve followed for 6 years now in the professional industry now and never had an issue with it.

 

[Astro14]

That’s a good idea I actually hadn’t really considered that ever. My problem is I’m not strong enough to even push a torque wrench to that amount of foot pounds so even if I did I’d still have to get assistance. Besides the one guy at my dealership I don’t know anyone else besides people here that torque the axle nuts. When I was in school they are like tighten it till it stops then do one more snug then stake it and it’s good to go that’s what I’ve followed for 6 years now in the professional industry now and never had an issue with it.

What does Toyota say to do?

How do you know “you’ve never had a problem”?

Because, these aren’t your cars.

So, you have no basis to track a performance of your work.

Then the customer may not see the failure for months or even years and, by then, they either don’t attribute a subsequent failure to sloppy work or they don’t bring it back because they don’t own it.

 

[Trav]

I always use a torque wrench on them, I have no idea how anyone could interpret this as just hit it with an impact gun. There is no excuse for this sort of of hack work.

 

[AutoMechanic]

What does Toyota say to do?

How do you know “you’ve never had a problem”?

Because, these aren’t your cars.

So, you have no basis to track a performance of your work.

Then the customer may not see the failure for months or even years and, by then, they either don’t attribute a subsequent failure to sloppy work or they don’t bring it back because they don’t own it.

Toyota has a torque spec. On some which is pretty tight like 180-250 foot pounds depending on the model. I have no doubt my impact gets close to that. And it’s hard to ask a couple flat rate guys to come help hold a pry bar or pull a torque wrench. I don’t know of anyone I’ve ever seen use a torque wrench except the one tech I mentioned earlier. It’s definitely not sloppy work. Everyone has their way of doing things and as long as you achieve the same end result it’s good.

 

[DougR]

Torque spec on the four lower control arm cam bolts of my 4Runner is 129 ft-lbs. I told the service writer to put that on the work order, but evidently a torque wrench was not used. Torque values ranged from 65-100 according to my wrenches (Craftsman beam and Proto). It's unfortunate to pay for dealer pricing and I then have to drive up on ramps, crawl under and torque to spec.

 

[Trav]

Toyota has a torque spec. On some which is pretty tight like 180-250 foot pounds depending on the model. I have no doubt my impact gets close to that. And it’s hard to ask a couple flat rate guys to come help hold a pry bar or pull a torque wrench. I don’t know of anyone I’ve ever seen use a torque wrench except the one tech I mentioned earlier. It’s definitely not sloppy work. Everyone has their way of doing things and as long as you achieve the same end result it’s good.

The question is are you achieving the same result?

 

[DougR]

Toyota has a torque spec. On some which is pretty tight like 180-250 foot pounds depending on the model. I have no doubt my impact gets close to that. And it’s hard to ask a couple flat rate guys to come help hold a pry bar or pull a torque wrench. I don’t know of anyone I’ve ever seen use a torque wrench except the one tech I mentioned earlier. It’s definitely not sloppy work. Everyone has their way of doing things and as long as you achieve the same end result it’s good.

What about lower control arm cam bolts? Does anybody torque them properly? A 4Runner is 129 ft-lbs. I checked the torque after an alignment and values ranged from 65-100 according to my wrenches (Craftsman beam and Proto). It's unfortunate to pay for dealer pricing and then have to drive up on ramps, crawl under and torque to spec. Is that an instance of sloppy work, or would they say, it was good enough if I wanted them to fix it? It's much easier for me to post a bad review on social media rather than go back to talk with anyone about it.

 

[Wingo]

I torque mine, but my 1/2" maxed out at 150, I needed 177. I could have fudged it and it would have been just fine. But then I couldn't buy a new tool. I bought the 1/2" harbor freight Quinn digital adapter, worked great.

 

[AutoMechanic]

What about lower control arm cam bolts? Does anybody torque them properly? A 4Runner is 129 ft-lbs. I checked the torque after an alignment and values ranged from 65-100 according to my wrenches (Craftsman beam and Proto). It's unfortunate to pay for dealer pricing and then have to drive up on ramps, crawl under and torque to spec. Is that an instance of sloppy work, or would they say, it was good enough if I wanted them to fix it? It's much easier for me to post a bad review on social media rather than go back to talk with anyone about it.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use a torque wrench there either but then again I will admit I’m not one too either but that’s because I didn’t know their was a spec for that. But know I know so I’m glad you brought that up. I know they are insanely tight when I have to loosen them on alignments. I have to use my 3 foot Snap-on ratchet and all my body strength to loosen those. Most of the guys at my shop if they get something like a 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia etc with those bolts they do a toe and go alignment and leave the caster and camber red. I’m one of the few who actually loosens them to adjust the camber and caster.

 

[Astro14]

Toyota has a torque spec. On some which is pretty tight like 180-250 foot pounds depending on the model. I have no doubt my impact gets close to that. And it’s hard to ask a couple flat rate guys to come help hold a pry bar or pull a torque wrench. I don’t know of anyone I’ve ever seen use a torque wrench except the one tech I mentioned earlier. It’s definitely not sloppy work. Everyone has their way of doing things and as long as you achieve the same end result it’s good.

I’m sure you’d be cool if your surgeon took a few “shortcuts”, and didn’t use established procedure when she’s performing surgery on you - I mean, as long as it’s close enough, it’s good enough, right?

I mean, as long as nothing bad happens…

“Nothing bad has happened” is how NASA justified flying the space shuttle while ignoring effect of cold weather on o-rings.

The engineers at Morton Thiokol knew.

But like you, NASA “knew better” because “nothing bad happened”.

Right until the o-ring failed and killed everyone on board.

You have not achieved the same result as a torque wrench when you hammer a fastener on with an impact.

Maybe it’s fine.

Or, maybe, it isn’t.

You don’t know. And hiding behind “nothing bad happened” as excuse for not doing the job the right way may be common, but it cannot justify the practice.

 

[DougR]

Most of the guys at my shop if they get something like a 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia etc. with those bolts they do a toe and go alignment and leave the caster and camber red. I’m one of the few who actually loosens them to adjust the camber and caster.

I wanted a 1-inch lift in the front, so I installed new springs and shocks. Therefore, I needed an alignment. Now I feel a little better as there was evidence the cam bolts were loosened, and most likely adjustments were made. If the torques were still at factory assembly spec, I might have received a "set toe and go" alignment. Anyway, thanks for giving your customers what they pay for. I'm almost 74 and there's only a few more years left in me to do my own work. I hope to find someone who will not cut corners.

 

[Astro14]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use a torque wrench there either but then again I will admit I’m not one too either but that’s because I didn’t know their was a spec for that. But know I know so I’m glad you brought that up. I know they are insanely tight when I have to loosen them on alignments. I have to use my 3 foot Snap-on ratchet and all my body strength to loosen those. Most of the guys at my shop if they get something like a 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia etc with those bolts they do a toe and go alignment and leave the caster and camber red. I’m one of the few who actually loosens them to adjust the camber and caster.

The mark of a professional - doing the job right. Glad to hear it, @AutoMechanic

 

[CarlB]

Who here uses a torque wrench on the cv axle nut?​

Me.

 

[BrendanC]

it gets 3 ugga-duggas from the milwaukee

 

[D60]

Since we're getting into mechanic shaming and I'm a better mechanic than you, let's not forget to virtue signal by also lecturing about not using too much antiseize because it'll hydraulic and prevent the axle from seating even when proper torque is "clicked"

If you don't like that idea, DO NOT DEBATE ME, you can contact Timken and argue with them:


And don't forget: MY MOM IS PRETTIER THAN YOUR MOM! Duh.

I'm rubber and you're glue.....

 

[brages]

On Volvos, there is a problem of axles clicking if you don't get the axle BOLT tight enough.

 

[Astro14]

Shaming? Really? If your defense of your procedure is “nothing bad happened” - then, you need to re-examine what you’re doing.

“Nothing bad happened when I did this” is a classic error across many disciplines and it leads to complacency, and to eventual mishaps, like the space shuttle.

There are four levels of professionalism, according to Tony Holmes, an analyst, author, PhD and former fighter pilot.

Level 1 - You get a paycheck for doing the work.

Level 2 - You get paid and are in full compliance with all regulations, policies and procedures while doing the work.

Level 3 - You are in full compliance and actively seek out new training and ways to improve your performance.

Level 4 - You seek out improvement in your self and in others, to elevate their performance.


So, I am arguing that a mechanic should at least be a level 2. Full compliance. If you board an airplane, you would want the pilot to be a level four - actively seeking to improve the performance of the cockpit team. And if you’re laying on the operating table and a surgeon is about to reattach parts of your body, you would hope they are a level four, a doctor who seeks to improvise their profession.

The only people who are feeling shame are operating at level one - getting a paycheck, but not in full compliance.

“I’m a level one, and I am good enough. My method is good enough.” Perhaps with a dollop of “I know more than the engineers that specified this” served on top of that statement. Not exactly a strong argument.

“Nothing bad happened”. “It’s close enough.” Two excuses that will get you in great trouble in many professions, particularly the military. No drill instructor, first sergeant, or commanding officer would ever accept such sloppy work. No SEAL about to jump out of an airplane next to you would accept that excuse, either.

All the recent aircraft crashes were, yeah, you guessed it, level 1 professionals. They got paychecks, they did the job, but they failed to comply with procedures, policies and regulations.

I’m sure that “nothing bad happened” when they previously failed to be in full compliance with airspace rules, or company policies on stable approach.

Nothing bad happened - until it did. The difference, of course, is that those pilots were in the mid air collision, and evacuating from the rolled over airplane in Toronto, while a mechanic that fails to comply with procedures sends the result of his work on to other people.

What shocks me about this discussion is the number of people making the “good enough” argument. The number of people who operate at level 1 - and think that anyone advocating for higher standards is the one in error.

 

[Trav]

Since we're getting into mechanic shaming and I'm a better mechanic than you, let's not forget to virtue signal by also lecturing about not using too much antiseize because it'll hydraulic and prevent the axle from seating even when proper torque is "clicked"

If you don't like that idea, DO NOT DEBATE ME, you can contact Timken and argue with them:


And don't forget: MY MOM IS PRETTIER THAN YOUR MOM! Duh.

I'm rubber and you're glue.....

This is the same type of argument NGK makes with anti seize and we still see broken plugs and threads pulled out despite their coating.
Too much grease or anti seize on the spline shaft may cause an issue but a thin coating is generally not going to cause a problem. I don't care for the alternative of not using any, over the years I have come across some real bears.