Which oils have Esters?

[jjbula]

I'm no chemist but I've been reading about the Ester component in a synthetic having a similar purpose to the Group I component in a dino oil. MolaKule was kind enough to tell us a great deal about esters.

My understanding is additives are held in the Ester or Group I and they also provide detergency. I know some esters are for very specific uses (such as Neutra or Auto-Rx).

Are there dino or Group III oils that use Esters to help with detergency?

I know Maxlife has a very small amount of esters to work on seals but I suspect they are not also used as a detergent.

Does Schaeffer Blend have esters? Are Esters just an expensive way to do the same job as a Group I oil? That may explain why Drive Clean blend uses group I oil.

 

[WeyounDS9]

I know of one group III that uses some group V (ester syn) oil.

The ValvolineSynPower which is now a group III has some group V in it.
I am sure many other group III's are doing the same.

Fred...

 

[G-MAN]

Castrol Syntec is a Group III oil that has esters blended in. That's the "unique molecular technology" marketing hype that they use in their advertising.

Because Group III base oil has the same problem with solvency that PAO does, a lot of Group III syns have ester blended in. One exception is Shell's synthetics. Rotella T Synthetic has a small amount (between 1% and 2.99%) of Group I blended in. Their Helix Ultra (5w40) has both ester (between 1% and 2.99%) and Group I (a whopping 20 to 29.99%). (As good as Helix Ultra is, with this amount of Group I in the mix, I'd honestly consider it a synthetic blend.)

 

[TooSlick]

XHVI,

I was under the impression that Group III oils are normally substituted for the PAO portion of the basestock blend, which would typically comprise 80%-90% of the basestock. So when Castrol switched from PAO to Group III, they still retained a small amount of ester to balance the seal swell characteristics and provide some additional solvency ....

You either are affiliated with Shell or you have a strange hobby of memorizing basestock blends

TooSlick

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
"Castrol Syntec is a Group III oil that has esters blended in. That's the "unique molecular technology" marketing hype that they use in their advertising."

It could be the improved VII's they are talking about instead of the base oils

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:
Quote:
It could be the improved VII's they are talking about instead of the base oils

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No, it isn't. When their advertising talks about "molecular bonding" with the metal, that's a trait of ester base oil. What's funny is that Castrol talks about it as if it's something unique to their oil, when in fact any oil with some Group V blended in is going to get this benefit.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:

I was under the impression that Group III oils are normally substituted for the PAO portion of the basestock blend, which would typically comprise 80%-90% of the basestock. So when Castrol switched from PAO to Group III, they still retained a small amount of ester to balance the seal swell characteristics and provide some additional solvency ....

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Group III producers specifically warn against merely substituting Group III for PAO. The additive package must be reformulated for the Group III used. When Castrol switched to Group III in the late 90s (at the time they went with Shell's XHVI, though I think they are using Petro-Canada's Group III now), the entire formulation was reworked and ester was part of the base oil blend.

 

[MolaKule]

JJ,

Many additives are in the form of esters when added to the formulated oil, but I assume you are referring to carboxylic acids esters and polyol esters in fully formulated oils. Most Group III oils and PAO based oils need a small amount of ester for seal swell, increased detergency, better oxidative stability, greater VI, and increased additive solubility.

The two most common polyol esters are TMP (trimethylpropane) and PE (pentaerylthritol) or similar. Some di-esters are used in non-detergent compressor fluids, and NEO-Oil uses these as bases exclusively.

There are over 175 di-esters and over 250 polyol esters of last count.

A good overall description of esters for ester lubricating fluids can be found at:

http://www.hatcocorporation.com/pages/about_esters.html

[ December 02, 2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[jjbula]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:

There are over 175 di-esters and over 250 polyol esters of last count.

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Everyone,

Thanks for the great response. I really wasn't going anywhere in particular with the question..just fun to think about. This is definitely a can of worms. For those of you debating which oil is best, it would be even harder debating which ester is best. This may be a case of possible information overload.

BTW, I bet the oil companies are inventing and adding new types of esters all the time.

 

[dragboat]

quote:

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Originally posted by XHVI:

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:
Quote:
It could be the improved VII's they are talking about instead of the base oils

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No, it isn't. When their advertising talks about "molecular bonding" with the metal, that's a trait of ester base oil. What's funny is that Castrol talks about it as if it's something unique to their oil, when in fact any oil with some Group V blended in is going to get this benefit.

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In your previous post you did not type the words moleculer bonding you typed this"unique molecular technology" is why I replied with it being possible it is a VII

Pennzoil has a Pennstar Molecule that is patented and it is a VII , again why I replied as I did

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:

In your previous post you did not type the words moleculer bonding you typed this"unique molecular technology" is why I replied with it being possible it is a VII

Pennzoil has a Pennstar Molecule that is patented and it is a VII , again why I replied as I did

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Sorry for the confusion.

From what I understand, Pennstar is (or was, if they're still using it) made by Shell for Pennzoil and is just a variation of ShellVis, which is probably the most shear stable VI improver on the market.