Which auto maker will be next?

[ZiTS]

I know someone talked about this before, but it's one of those things that still suprised me when I saw it with my own eyes:

Browsing through the local Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealership last night I came across a 2005 Chrysler 300C with the 5.7L Hemi. I had to pop the hood to take a look inside, and sure enough, right there in yellow lettering on the oil cap was the cold, hard truth - "5w-20"!

Honda...Ford...and now Daimler-Chrysler. When will the General concede?

Z-

 

[G-MAN]

What surprised me was when I popped the hood on a new 300 Touring, which has the same 3.5 V6 my 99 300M has, and the oil cap had 10w30 on it. I thought for sure since Chrysler was going to 5w20 in the hemi and 3.7 V6 they would have spec'd 5w20 for the 3.5, too.

 

[dB]

I'm not surprised, since they cut off 4 of the 8 cylinders during highway cruising to get better gas mileage. Just another American car company's way to implement "planned obsolescence" by going to "-30w-10".

 

[Schmoe]

Cut off 4 of the 8????? What??? Which engine? When did this start happening? First time I've heard about that since GM's try in the 70's with that type of engine. School me.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Cut off 4 of the 8????? What??? Which engine? When did this start happening? First time I've heard about that since GM's try in the 70's with that type of engine. School me.

---

From the Car and Driver road test of the 300C:

quote:

---

A Hemi cut in half? Chrysler calls it the Multi Displacement System (MDS), a cylinder shut-off feature on the 300C that, by company accounting, boosts fuel economy 10 percent on the EPA city cycle. Under light throttle at any speed between 15 mph and 82 mph, a dedicated oil stream to four intake and four exhaust roller lifters pushes a pin in the lifters allowing them to compress rather than stroke the pushrod. The valves stay closed to reduce pumping losses and trap exhaust gases, keeping the cylinders warm. Mash the accelerator, and within 40 milliseconds the pin drops back into place, reactivating the valves. The 4140-pound 300C Hemi scores 17 mpg in city driving and 25 on the highway in EPA tests. The Car and Driver test, admittedly riotous, resulted in 17 miles to the gallon. Did the system ever turn on? Couldn't tell—it's completely seamless.

---

 

[Schmoe]

Wow. That's pretty ballsy of them. Don't know if I'd want to be the guinea pig for the first couple of years of production on that one. 40 millisecs and the pin drops out.....that must be some sort of electrical actuator or something, I can't see it being mechanical in that quick of a time frame. Boy....like I said....pretty ballsy.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Wow. That's pretty ballsy of them. Don't know if I'd want to be the guinea pig for the first couple of years of production on that one. 40 millisecs and the pin drops out.....that must be some sort of electrical actuator or something, I can't see it being mechanical in that quick of a time frame. Boy....like I said....pretty ballsy.

---

Yeah, I think I've got to agree with you on this one, at least for now. Obviously, computer control of engines has come a long way since GM's disastrous customer-based-experiment with the "V-8-6-4" engine of the early 70s. That said, the more Rube Goldberg that goes on inside an engine, the more I worry about it. I'd want to see this system work on the street, in customers custody for several years before I'd feel comfortable with buying it. I hope it works well for those brave pioneers who buy it, I'm just not going to be one of them. . .

 

[T-Keith]

GM has been deleoping this technology for years. They have several engines coming out with this technology, including the 5.3 V8 this fall. The difference between this and the old V8-6-4, is that they now have the computer power to make it work.

-T

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:
GM has been deleoping this technology for years. They have several engines coming out with this technology, including the 5.3 V8 this fall. The difference between this and the old V8-6-4, is that they now have the computer power to make it work.

-T

---

My cousin is an engine test engineer at the Ontario plant which assembles the LS1, LS6, the truck variations (4.8, 5.3, 6.0) and now the new LS2. He told me about 3-4 years ago that he was testing the new cylinder shutdown technology with excellent results. In fact even back then he told me that it would probably show up in 2005 on the truck engines, and in 2006 on the 500hp Corvette engine (possibly named the LS7-although his plant won't be assembling this particular engine)

They have this technology on one of the Mercedes V12 engines. I remember breifly reading a Car and Driver test on one last year, and this particular engine could get over 30mpg highway, but yet it made about 500hp! And it was in a pretty heavy vehicle too. That sounds promising to me!

 

[Kestas]

You can thank GM for killing two promising technologies in American cars back in the 80's -- diesel and cylinder shut-off. Because of the poor execution of this technology, a whole generation of consumers don't want to hear about these designs.

Make it three -- aluminum engine blocks (75 Vega).

 

[T-Keith]

GM had aluminum engine block in the 60s. It's not the steriotype of these ideas that held them back, it's the lack of technology to back them up.

-T

 

[Patman]

The LS1, LS2 and LS6 use aluminum blocks though, with great success. Shaved off 70lbs from the front of the Corvette, which helped the C5 acheive perfect 50/50 weight distribution.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kestas:
Make it three -- aluminum engine blocks (75 Vega).

---

The problem with the Vega engine wasn't the aluminum block, it was GM's attempt to do a high-silicon aluminum block with sleeveless cylinders. They didn't have the technology down pat enough to properly etch the cylinder walls to give the pistons a uniform layer of hard silicon to run on.

This technology was later "perfected" by the Germans with the V8 that came in the Porsche 928 and the second generation Mercedes V8 engines (3.8, 5.0, and 5.6 liter engines).

 

[Ray H]

Didn't G.M. also get the high silicon/aluminum block right with a Cadillac pushrod V8 that preceeded the Northstar in the early '90s? Some weird duck of a motor with cast iron heads?

 

[gtm245]

Yeah the 4.1 (HT4100), 4.5, and 4.9 V8's. Aluminum block with cast iron heads. They didn't exactly get it right though because these engines are notorious for coolant leaks and head gasket failures. They even came factory with GM sealant pellets or "stop leak" in the cooling system. If you own one of these engines flush your cooling system AT LEAST evey 2 years or 24,000 miles and add the sealant pellets. God help you if you own an HT4100. By far the worst engine GM has ever made.

 

[AtlasFBG2]

The new Corvette engine is the LS7.A little over a year ago we made the prototype cranks.We are seting up a line to start production now.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray H:
Didn't G.M. also get the high silicon/aluminum block right with a Cadillac pushrod V8 that preceeded the Northstar in the early '90s? Some weird duck of a motor with cast iron heads?

---

No, those engine had sleeves. And what an idiotic design: alum block and iron heads.

 

[gtm245]

It is kinda idiotic but you wouldn't believe how many auto makers still use an aluminum block and iron head design. Almost everyone I've seen has a head gasket problem. The aluminum heats up a lot faster and expands more thus creating a situation in which the head gasket has to seal these two completely different surfaces together that expand, head up, and cool down in totally different ways. Best bet is to find an all aluminum or all iron engine.

 

[Lumberg]

quote:

---

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Cut off 4 of the 8????? What??? Which engine? When did this start happening? First time I've heard about that since GM's try in the 70's with that type of engine. School me.

---

From the Car and Driver road test of the 300C:

quote:

---

A Hemi cut in half? Chrysler calls it the Multi Displacement System (MDS), a cylinder shut-off feature on the 300C that, by company accounting, boosts fuel economy 10 percent on the EPA city cycle. Under light throttle at any speed between 15 mph and 82 mph, a dedicated oil stream to four intake and four exhaust roller lifters pushes a pin in the lifters allowing them to compress rather than stroke the pushrod. The valves stay closed to reduce pumping losses and trap exhaust gases, keeping the cylinders warm. Mash the accelerator, and within 40 milliseconds the pin drops back into place, reactivating the valves. The 4140-pound 300C Hemi scores 17 mpg in city driving and 25 on the highway in EPA tests. The Car and Driver test, admittedly riotous, resulted in 17 miles to the gallon. Did the system ever turn on? Couldn't tell—it's completely seamless.

---

---

Ok, how would that save gas if every stroke is a compression stroke?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gtm245:
It is kinda idiotic but you wouldn't believe how many auto makers still use an aluminum block and iron head design.

---

What companies use iron head and alum block? I don't know of any. Now an iron block and alum heads, that's a different matter.