Merk thinks oil choices are frozen in 1975.
Which 0W20 for better high temp protection
- Thread starter Spudislander
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Haha! He probably wouldn't have the stones to run the PYB 20w20 I sent you a pic of either as he doesn't know the viscosity of it LOL!
I've found that any 20-weight used in the properly spec'd application will protect well. I've been partial to the Pennzoil Ultra/UltraPlat line for a few years now... they keep turning in low-wearing UOA's for me and the TAN stays below the TBN for a 7500mi run as well which is something more and more oils tend to not be able to do with their Magnesium detergent packages.
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I have M1 5w20 in the 300. Oil temps vary from 194-212 with no drop in pressure. Driven hard the highest temps I've seen is 240 and even then oil pressure at idle was 20 psi. I stand with M1.
Originally Posted By: car51
Haha! He probably wouldn't have the stones to run the PYB 20w20 I sent you a pic of either as he doesn't know the viscosity of it LOL!
It probably had a similar HTHS to most ILSAC 30s we see today.
Haha! He probably wouldn't have the stones to run the PYB 20w20 I sent you a pic of either as he doesn't know the viscosity of it LOL!
It probably had a similar HTHS to most ILSAC 30s we see today.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, the average person would be fine with 10w-30. And no one said that 0w-20 is perfectly acceptable for all engines under all conditions, either; you, however, get dangerously close to stating that about 10w-30, and that's certainly not the case.
The 10w-30 you run is decidedly too thin for many applications, yet its cold weather performance leaves much to be desired, at least in certain climates. Try some unaided starts up here in -40 with 10w-30. It won't be a lot of fun. Or, run it in a diesel calling for a high HTHS oil, and see if an ILSAC 10w-30 is actually thick or how much is just a perception.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil. When we have our second civil war, and all the government offices in D.C. are evacuated, I'm gonna quietly enter that CAFE building and set up some charges.
I'll pull a Building #7 on that place -- a nice little controlled demolition.
Of course, the average person would be fine with 10w-30. And no one said that 0w-20 is perfectly acceptable for all engines under all conditions, either; you, however, get dangerously close to stating that about 10w-30, and that's certainly not the case.
The 10w-30 you run is decidedly too thin for many applications, yet its cold weather performance leaves much to be desired, at least in certain climates. Try some unaided starts up here in -40 with 10w-30. It won't be a lot of fun. Or, run it in a diesel calling for a high HTHS oil, and see if an ILSAC 10w-30 is actually thick or how much is just a perception.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil. When we have our second civil war, and all the government offices in D.C. are evacuated, I'm gonna quietly enter that CAFE building and set up some charges.
I'll pull a Building #7 on that place -- a nice little controlled demolition.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil. When we have our second civil war, and all the government offices in D.C. are evacuated, I'm gonna quietly enter that CAFE building and set up some charges.
I am so with you (and the others) on this.
I also started telling friends in 2010 a revolution was coming. I think Trump is that revolution, as much as I detest him. But good for us in general.
I also used to work in the '90s in 1WTC. I studied the trial transcripts of the '93 attack (before I was there) and to a thinking man, it was clear they were coming back. I got out because of that and therefore am alive today. Seriously, it is not hard to read between the corporate/government lines. You just have to get your head out, up, and looking around. Just like with CAFE.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil. When we have our second civil war, and all the government offices in D.C. are evacuated, I'm gonna quietly enter that CAFE building and set up some charges.
I am so with you (and the others) on this.
I also started telling friends in 2010 a revolution was coming. I think Trump is that revolution, as much as I detest him. But good for us in general.
I also used to work in the '90s in 1WTC. I studied the trial transcripts of the '93 attack (before I was there) and to a thinking man, it was clear they were coming back. I got out because of that and therefore am alive today. Seriously, it is not hard to read between the corporate/government lines. You just have to get your head out, up, and looking around. Just like with CAFE.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Merk thinks oil choices are frozen in 1975.
No Way.
1975 = 20W-50
I have moved to the 15W-40 era, because I'm a modern man. But getting dangerously close to 5W-30 A3/B4.
Merk and his ILSAC 10W-30 is a complete hippy, running his car on fairy dust.
Merk thinks oil choices are frozen in 1975.
No Way.
1975 = 20W-50
I have moved to the 15W-40 era, because I'm a modern man. But getting dangerously close to 5W-30 A3/B4.
Merk and his ILSAC 10W-30 is a complete hippy, running his car on fairy dust.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil
Oil grades with reduced HTHS predate the CAFE regime significantly. Don't forget that. And we in Canada and those in Japan use much the same viscosity options, without CAFE.
You're still using a fuel economy oil, you know.
SR5: 10w-30 was a pretty important grade in North America in the 1970s, particularly to General Motors at least. They were fairly early in adopting it. Now, if Merk wants to avoid thin oil, he should be choosing a 5w-30 A3/B4.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil
Oil grades with reduced HTHS predate the CAFE regime significantly. Don't forget that. And we in Canada and those in Japan use much the same viscosity options, without CAFE.
You're still using a fuel economy oil, you know.
SR5: 10w-30 was a pretty important grade in North America in the 1970s, particularly to General Motors at least. They were fairly early in adopting it. Now, if Merk wants to avoid thin oil, he should be choosing a 5w-30 A3/B4.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Merk and his ILSAC 10W-30 is a complete hippy, running his car on fairy dust.
I'm not sure how to respond to that.
Merk and his ILSAC 10W-30 is a complete hippy, running his car on fairy dust.
I'm not sure how to respond to that.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, the average person would be fine with 10w-30. And no one said that 0w-20 is perfectly acceptable for all engines under all conditions, either; you, however, get dangerously close to stating that about 10w-30, and that's certainly not the case. The 10w-30 you run is decidedly too thin for many applications, yet its cold weather performance leaves much to be desired, at least in certain climates. Try some unaided starts up here in -40 with 10w-30. It won't be a lot of fun. Or, run it in a diesel calling for a high HTHS oil, and see if an ILSAC 10w-30 is actually thick or how much is just a perception.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil.
All fine and good if you can post credible information that shows xW-20 oils have caused problems with the engines which specify its use. Until that point in time, it is much ado about nothing--as with many things on BITOG. Far too many vehicles (read this as millions) which have used xW-20 all their mechanical lives and just keep on going. My experience using xW-20 has been nothing but positive and I subjected my FX4 to conditions that would have created a problem if one was to be had.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, the average person would be fine with 10w-30. And no one said that 0w-20 is perfectly acceptable for all engines under all conditions, either; you, however, get dangerously close to stating that about 10w-30, and that's certainly not the case. The 10w-30 you run is decidedly too thin for many applications, yet its cold weather performance leaves much to be desired, at least in certain climates. Try some unaided starts up here in -40 with 10w-30. It won't be a lot of fun. Or, run it in a diesel calling for a high HTHS oil, and see if an ILSAC 10w-30 is actually thick or how much is just a perception.
The root of the problem is the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) agency. Once well get rid of that outfit, we can get rid of thin oil.
All fine and good if you can post credible information that shows xW-20 oils have caused problems with the engines which specify its use. Until that point in time, it is much ado about nothing--as with many things on BITOG. Far too many vehicles (read this as millions) which have used xW-20 all their mechanical lives and just keep on going. My experience using xW-20 has been nothing but positive and I subjected my FX4 to conditions that would have created a problem if one was to be had.
Originally Posted By: Spudislander
Which brand among the more popular 0W20 synthetics has a viscosity that should provide the best high temperature or heavy workload protection?
OP, for high temp & load conditions, you want a high HTHS (high temperature high shear viscosity) oil
Some typical values that I happen to know:
Kendall GT-1 0W-20 = 2.6 cP
M1 EP & M1 AFE 0W-20 = 2.7 cP
However if you are happy to use a 5W-20 then
M1 regular & M1 EP 5W-20 = 2.75 cP
If you want high HTHS then consider RedLine
RL 0W-20 = 2.9 cP
RL 5W-20 = 3.0 cP
However M1 AFE 0W-30 = 3.0 cP as well. (and M1 EP 5W-30 = 3.0 cP)
So to my mind, a heavy 20 weight oil is the same as a light 30 weight oil. I don't think your car will care one bit. Maybe a lawyer does. This is more a reflection of an out of date naming convention with arbitrary lines in the sand.
I'm not sure what Valvoline / Castrol / SOPUS offer, but it will be very similar to Mobil 1 above.
If you want heavy, but still a nominal "20 weight", then go Red Line.
Me ? I would buy something like M1 0W-30 AFE at 3.0 cP
Which brand among the more popular 0W20 synthetics has a viscosity that should provide the best high temperature or heavy workload protection?
OP, for high temp & load conditions, you want a high HTHS (high temperature high shear viscosity) oil
Some typical values that I happen to know:
Kendall GT-1 0W-20 = 2.6 cP
M1 EP & M1 AFE 0W-20 = 2.7 cP
However if you are happy to use a 5W-20 then
M1 regular & M1 EP 5W-20 = 2.75 cP
If you want high HTHS then consider RedLine
RL 0W-20 = 2.9 cP
RL 5W-20 = 3.0 cP
However M1 AFE 0W-30 = 3.0 cP as well. (and M1 EP 5W-30 = 3.0 cP)
So to my mind, a heavy 20 weight oil is the same as a light 30 weight oil. I don't think your car will care one bit. Maybe a lawyer does. This is more a reflection of an out of date naming convention with arbitrary lines in the sand.
I'm not sure what Valvoline / Castrol / SOPUS offer, but it will be very similar to Mobil 1 above.
If you want heavy, but still a nominal "20 weight", then go Red Line.
Me ? I would buy something like M1 0W-30 AFE at 3.0 cP
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
I did google M1 0-40 and found most had no more oil consumption than other oils. Many on line posters are oil salesman.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
I did google M1 0-40 and found most had no more oil consumption than other oils. Many on line posters are oil salesman.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
None of them. That stuff is too thin. It's a minus 40 Fahrenheit oil.
I agree with Merk. When owners manuals say to bump up to a thicker oil for extended high speeds,loads,temps,etc,that to me is saying super light oils are spec'd for max fuel economy only.
None of them. That stuff is too thin. It's a minus 40 Fahrenheit oil.
I agree with Merk. When owners manuals say to bump up to a thicker oil for extended high speeds,loads,temps,etc,that to me is saying super light oils are spec'd for max fuel economy only.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
None of them. That stuff is too thin. It's a minus 40 Fahrenheit oil.
I agree with Merk. When owners manuals say to bump up to a thicker oil for extended high speeds,loads,temps,etc,that to me is saying super light oils are spec'd for max fuel economy only.
I also use 0-20 because it performs great in 100F+ temps.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
None of them. That stuff is too thin. It's a minus 40 Fahrenheit oil.
I agree with Merk. When owners manuals say to bump up to a thicker oil for extended high speeds,loads,temps,etc,that to me is saying super light oils are spec'd for max fuel economy only.
I also use 0-20 because it performs great in 100F+ temps.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
We changed to either Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, VR1 or Royal Purple and in most cases the consumption stopped
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 EP. 70% PAO and a Noack of 10%.
Mobil 1 is great at handling absurd high temps. Am I a bit M1biased? Yes, but bc I think they do a great job in this area. I have no idea what's up w/the 0w40.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...charged-engines
Yes theoretically. It's a different story in person though. At my shop we see many cars in the racing circuit that uses M1 oils mostly 0w40 that come in with high oil consumption. I'm talking about over 50 vehicles and counting . If you want some boring reading Google M1 0w40 oil consumption and see what you find.
Racing will often increase oil consumption. What oils did they use to reduce it? Also, Noack of the M1 0w40 is a nice 8.6%. I believe what you're saying, but it may have little to do with the oil.
We changed to either Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, VR1 or Royal Purple and in most cases the consumption stopped
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