Where Would GM Be Without the UAW?

[Dark Jedi]

I agree Box. the car manufacturers pass on the costs of the new union contracts on to the consumers. I have seen unions work first hand in a plant I worked at one time. they was the most cocky people I have ever seen. but what ever the union people gets the non unions people gets also. so why I never joined it. they talked about looking out for your intrests. well I saw how they looked out for their people. it was proposed to the union. to goto a 4 day work week of 8 hour shifts. for awhile untill sales came back up. the other option was lay offs. well all the union guys that wasnt affected by the lay off. said no way in **** I am giving up 8 hours of pay for them people to stay. lay them off they all said. so yeah they really look out for their own. all them people that paied union dues just got shafted by the very union they supported to look out for them.

but to the topic at hand. would GM be in a better position if they had no union. I will say no. as the UAW only makes up a percentage of the problem. management is the main problem. I dont see the point of a GM truck and a GMC truck. its the same truck. jsut different makes. think this is one prob GM has. it would be better to jsut let GMC do the trucks and SUV. thst would save them alot of money. they need to cut alot more makes. like they did when they canned OLDS. think these are a few ways I see GM doing better.

 

[Dark Jedi]

quote:

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Originally posted by boxcartommie22:
iam not giving any my money to the japaneese..american all the way

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if your american all the way. why you by gas thats bought from overseas? I bet alot of items you have bought is not made in the USA. if a japaneese car is better than a US made car. then I will get the rice burner. I dont feel like spending all my time in the stealerships getting my american made car worked on. oh wait I am already doing this with my dodge

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[ScottB]

My wife works in the motion picture industry.
Almost all of the local (Los Angeles) work has gone away thanks to the unions.
They have made the film companies go elsewhere - usually overseas or Canada now.
It's no good.
The guys at the top suck off the teet and the union members get hosed because there's no work now - unless you'll work on location for less and awful conditions.

Scott

 

[boxcartommie22]

nice lip service jedi

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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I did just that this morning, and I paid $20 for a guy to spend 30 minutes to raise, rotate and adjust the air.
He owns the business.

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That's a $40 an hour labor rate. That's about half what it is in this area.

 

[ScottB]

It's a new shop, private owner.
Happy to do it.
Met a nice guy and made a friend.
Helped the local economy.
Good deal, IMHO.

Scott

 

[brianl703]

That also brings up another point--not all areas have the same costs of living, and therefore, not all areas have the same rate of pay for a job.

A forklift operator in Stafford, VA can expect to top out at about $17/hour at a non-union trucking company. Is that "too much"?

 

[Jeepster_nut]

quote:

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Originally posted by twentynine:
I have sat here on my hands and have not replied to this topic until now. It wasn't easy, but I managed, up to the point, where our friends here on this forum seemingly decide to declare class warfare.

Pray tell me anyone, why should a man who works with his hands not be paid a living wage? And let's clear one thing up, before the accussation is made, I am not union, nor have I ever been a union member. But niether have I ever attended a school of higher learning. I am just high school educated working man that has managed to provide for his family while working with my hands. 27 years chemical plant process technician. 27 years of 12 hour rotating shifts, not complaining, that's what I did to provide for my family.

Mr Blazer maybe the reason you are struggling is your attitude, quit looking around at your nieghbors, and worrying about what he's got. The only way for any one to attain those luxuries is through hard work, whether it be with your hands or your brain. Struggling is a way of life, everybodies life. Just because a college degree, excuse me, "a university education" is earned, that does not garauntee wealth and plenty. That is the way the world works. Some day that "assembly line worker" will face a lay off, so his wealth is not garaunteed either.

So Mr. Blazer rather than look out your window and decide for yourself that you deserve more than your nieghbor, get off your behind and get to work. But heck for all I know your "university education" might have earned you a degree in Elizabethan Art.

Unions were only a good thing for workers in their day? It is attitudes very similar these that brought about the unions in the first place. The "I'm educated better, my blood is bluer, I am holier than Thou Art, so I automaticly deserve more. Don't have to work, sit back and let the money roll in I got me a UNIVERSITY EDUCATION. Beyond their usefullness, I bet them slave laborers in Asia would argue the point.

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Well put, bashing cars is one thing but lets not drag classes into this. It's nothing to be ashamed of for making a decent living with one's hands. I do.

 

[Alcibiades]

The lines between classes and education levels are very blurry in some cases. Living in a university town, I've known more than a few dishwashers and self-employed carpenters or plumbers who could read Aristotle in the ancient Greek, or other similar things. The market for some kinds of intellectual pursuits is pitifully small. And that has nothing to do with whether they want to work hard (they do, in fact, work as hard as anybody), or whether their heads are in irrelevant clouds (they are our neighbors and they pay taxes, same as the rest of us). Most of those I know change their own oil, too.

 

[PandaBear]

quote:

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*** cars are not better then american cars by along shot and trade is a one way deal in this country japan can build here and sell their cars where as our exports to them is nil!!! iam not giving any my money to the japaneese..american all the way

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I think reliability is getting close, but still not as good (i.e. my dad's 2001 Taurus has more problem than my 95 Corolla, in the last 3 years). I am happy about the quality of the Taurus for the price (only 2/3 of a Camry's price). If they sell the same price as Camry, I would not even consider buying it. Heck, for the same price, I am not putting up with fuse box bind by electrical tape, firewall that was taped on and fall off, and trim pieces that feel like toys from dollar store.

Another thing these car companies should do is move their R&D dept away from detroit and the rurals, and learn to build cars that looks good. Whoever designed the 3rd gen Taurus (the fish)and Aztek should be shot, and the intern who designed the body panel of Malibu Maxx should go to a few more autoshow.

 

[Hirev]

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
Face it, workers don't need to be paid 20-30 an hour to put a tire on.

It is ridiculous.

Here I am with a university education struggling, and some guy next door with a assembly line job has a boat, an ATV and three new vehicles.

It is really ridiculous.

I should have just not gone to school and become an assembly line worker........

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Your knowledge is glaringly shallow. Blue collar "workers" are not sub human nor are they responsible for YOUR situation. Perhaps you need to take a long look in the mirror at yourself.

 

[brianl703]

I think the styling of the 3rd gen Taurus is a product of urban drug abuse.

 

[eljefino]

I'd rather get my hands dirty wrenching cars than be a university-trained proctologist.

It might be hard to tell one's parents that their kid hopes to grow up and spin lugnuts onto cavaliers... but it's honest work and they know what they want to do in life.

Trouble for GM started in the 50's when they merged Buick-Olds-Pontiac into one division and started "brand management" with different chrome doodads. The premise got more and more transparent. Back then they had so much market share they were afraid of getting busted up by anti-trust laws.

 

[Brett Miller]

It's an unfortunate situation for which there is no easy solution. I do think the UAW has a vested interest in working with Ford and GM. If they both fold the UAW is going with them.

 

[i]

Seems pretty simple to me what happened:

The folks that got burned at least once, and usually multiple times by the U.S. auto companies, while seeing their friends chugging along with far fewer issues in European cars, and almost no issues in Japanese cars, eventually swallowed their pride to save their pocketbook. That includes me.

For the younger crowd going straight to Japanese, they saw their parents get burned (or can easily do 'net research too).

I used to drive Saabs, but when GM bought them, I knew they were going to go downhill... and they did. I switched to Volvo, and then Ford bought them. Same. Actually I even remember Chrysler buying Sunbeam in the '60s and destroying them due to idiocy. Now I have a Toyota. Maybe Toyota will buy GM and keep the label around for a few years just to to foster good will and avoid backlash. It'll hurt them though, badly -- probably they could recover. I'd guess they discuss the prospect in boardrooms in Tokyo every week.

Oh yea, I had a Cavalier once. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice...

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by twentynine:


So Mr. Blazer rather than look out your window and decide for yourself that you deserve more than your nieghbor, get off your behind and get to work. But heck for all I know your "university education" might have earned you a degree in Elizabethan Art.

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Wow, what ignorance, I own my own business but I guess you think I am unemployed right?

And the struggle is trying to pay off 40,000 in education before I can even buy a car, or a house, but maybe I should have skipped all of that to go work in GM line job where you can sit, do a crap job and have some union fatcat come and bail me out.

Right, maybe I can go to GM in Oshawa and work on the assembly line to install a door window for CDN$36 per hour.

Oh wait, no I can't, because GM is shutting down that plant to save money seeing the UAW has been raping them so much.

Anyone condoning some monkey on an assembly line deserves that kind of money to basically nothing is a joke making himself even more moronic by sticking up for greed, gluttony and the uneducated.

You are a joke, and I guess you like how cars are getting more and more expensive because the skill-less labor on the line can't screw in a bolt properly.

 

[Dark Jedi]

sorry but the UAW hasnt been raping GM. GM raped themselves by poor leadership. ever hear getting to big for your pants.

 

[BlazerLT]

right, the union calling a strike because the workers aren't getting yet another raise is not raping?

 

[JHZR2]

While I agree with Blazer about the fact that many a college educated person is struggling, or making less than a union line worker, with less benefits and less retirement and less everything else... Whats to say that one man's 40 hours is worth THAT much less than another's???

I as an advanced degree chemical engineer - a person who went through tougher and more rigorous schooling than most anyone short of a surgeon... have a hard time accepting the wages that some of these folks make... but at the same time, if they are creating value, what is so much different than I??? Some create value with their brains, others with their hands and backs. I appreciate plant operators and technicians... In my field of work (R&D), a good technician can be as valuable if not moreso than a good engineer. And they can make or break your work. Are their wages worth it? Id say so.

I think part of the reason why many of the Japanese companies do so well is because there isnt such a gap between management and the worklines, or so I hear. Apparently, the lowest paid worker can make no less than 1/10th the salary (or perhaps calculaed hourly rate) of the highest paid worker. This IMO keeps everyone more connected on many fronts, and with the money differential, its either invested in workers' pride, or additional R&D.

Maybe this does something for them??? Everyone knows that American R&D outside of the military and some University work (mostof which is done by foreigners) really stinks, and most of it is being farmed off to China anyway. R&D is the basis to innovation which is the beginning of superiority. I bet Honda has a much larger engine R&D budget, for example, than GM!

JMH

 

[BlazerLT]

What I mean is the pay should reflect the difficulty of the job.

A guy putting a tire on a car on an assembly line does not deserve 20-35 an hour.

That is my point. You get the education to do a difficult job or your work is strenous, you deserve the pay, but useless union monkeys making that kind of money for a job that skil-less really irritates me and a lot of people.

That is why unions that were once commended are now being hated.

Most of them are practically strongarming most companies to move their factories overseas.

To be honest, I would too.