Where is the Data to Back up Valvoline All Climate Oil Bashing?

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1,130
Location
California
First, after the Synpower rebate fiasco I'm no fan of Valvoline. That said, picking on Valvoline products seems to be popular here, but where is the data to back it up? I think it is now well demonstrated that nothing in VOAs correlates to how well oils perform as judged by UOAs. People opine here about the "weak additive package" of Valvoline All Climate, but then Motorcraft oils are highly though of even though nothing which shows up in VOA backs it up. VOA results seem to be the basis for the claim about weak additive packages in Valvoline All Climate. So, point me to the UOA results or other data which demonstrates the weakness of Valvoline All Climate as compared to other popular dino oils like Quaker State. Based on everything I've seen on this site, there seems to be no correlation between VOA results and UOA results. The matter of correlating UOAs to actual engine mechanical wear is yet another kettle of fish, but the leap of logic which says that more wear metals showing up in UOAs means more metal wear inside the engine is at least plausible. John
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
There isn't really much "bashing" of Valvoline here ... just that it seems to have the skimpiest additive package ... but certainly not the skimpiest price. I personally feel they lied to me about Synpower being PAO and Max-Life being Group III, but that's just me. Motorcraft/Conoco oils have more boron in them. I'd use All-Climate if I had to, but others seem to be better choices. [I dont know] --- Bror Jace PS - Do a search on "All Climate" to find past discussion. This has come up before.
 
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13,132
Location
By Detroit
I'd say Valvoline is definitely the underdog at this site. The add pack "appears" weak and the price is high. Looking at the tech data sheets, All Climate does not look very appealing. Maxlife and Durablend look pretty good though. The 5w30 Durablend looks very good with a stated flashpoint comparable to 20w50 oils (or is it a typo in their tech sheet?). I am going to give the free Synpower a try next winter. [ July 06, 2004, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]
 
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2,768
Location
Tn
Not enough data here to base anything on related to uoa's on Valvoline. Heck after I cull all the M1 data that is suspect, it becomes limited. Bitog members often go crazy on mixes, additives, race and you name it plus a lot are too short of oci's to mean much. I think it's interesting and we can see some trends, but about the only way to know about Valvoline or anything else is the check it for yourself. Valvoline never worked for me, because it would volatize and burn off, or at least it disappeared somewhere. If it works for you, give us some uoa's.
 
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2,768
Location
Tn
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
quote:
Originally posted by haley10: Valvoline never worked for me, because it would volatize and burn off, or at least it disappeared somewhere. If it works for you, give us some uoa's.
That relates to one of my main issues with All Climate. It had very shabby flash points as I recall.

Actually, I think the All Cilimate flash point look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure I trust flash point specs. all that much. Some manufacturers are way above and some are way below values from voa's/uoa's. I think the NOACK volatility that Amsoil raves about is the best insight. Not that many will list this spec. It's a lot more "real world" than flash point. Actually GTX does pretty well for dino's in this, althought the flash point is only listed at 415F. High flash points are important, but remember your engine oil is normally going to be around 200F +-, so NOACK is more meaningful in what to expect for topping up.
 
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13,132
Location
By Detroit
You're right NOACK is better but rarely included in the tech data. FWIW, for all multigrades, both Durablend and Maxlife are at least 14 C higher in flash point than All Climate.
 
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2,768
Location
Tn
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul: You're right NOACK is better but rarely included in the tech data. FWIW, for all multigrades, both Durablend and Maxlife are at least 14 C higher in flash point than All Climate.
I have seen some NOACK on the Durablend, but can't remember exact numbers. It looks pretty fair compared to their Synpower. I think it's their most interesting oil if the price is right.
 
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323
Location
Minnesota-South Dakota
I was told how wonderful Valvoline All-Climate oils were. I used them in the past. After trying different oils, especially in higher mileage engines, I noticed the consumption went down, startup noise was diminished, etc. That was way before reading BITOG. Now I understand... I purchased a corsica 2.2 with 105M that recieved valvoline from day one. It had horrible piston slap and used 1qt/1500. Switching to even SuperTech 5/30, Castrol and Castrol HM drastically reduced the piston slap and the oil consumption nearly stopped. The current Cirrus V6 had All-Climate 5/30 from the dealer. It had some lifter chatter or something on cold startup. The switch to yes MaxLife Synthetic made that go away. And the stories go on. Maybe that is just experiences happening to me, but I have talked with others that have noticed the same/similar happenings. Their MaxLife and MaxLife Synthetic oils have been successful at stopping leaks and reducing consumption. Although just recently, the Castrol HM did the same for on vehicle. The Valvoline synthetic power steering fluid, throttle body cleaner, DOT 5 syn brake fluid have done wonderful, and actually the MaxLife oils have done well, too! It is just the All-Climate and Synpower that seem overpriced and haven't performed well. That along with Valvoline InstantOilChange installing the MaxLife ATF in a Chrysler vehicle (ATF+3 or +4), causing bad problems proven to be ATF caused, then not standing behind anything. That was the first UOA I have done...showed it wasn't nearly to ATF+3 or +4 specs. Even Chrysler said NEVER to use it. But they gave me a 'courtesy' flush with ATF+3 after threatening. It cost $118 for a flush with ML ATF!! Rediculous! Anyway, those have been my valvoline experiences.
 
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6,229
Location
Texas Hill Country
I think that vavoline all climate is a great oil. Someone gave me a five quart jug of it, and I keep it on the garage floor. I use it to rinse out my funnels so that I don't pour dust or grit into my motor when I am pouring a real motor oil into it. Absolute honest truth also guys!
 
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4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
There is absolutley nothing wrong with Valvoline All-Climate. It is a perfectly good API SL oil that meets every requirement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Castrol Syntec 5W-30 or 10W-30. For the record there is nothing wrong with Allied-Signal (Fram) Oil Filters either. They meet all the requirements for a OEM replacement. The bashing simply comes from the fact that superior products can be bought for less money. Gene
 
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2,794
Location
NM
My simple doctrine is: If you can get a product that looks better, has at least the same results and is the same price, then why not. Example: Chevron Supreme has proved itself against all dinos and even some synthetics......so, why would I even mess with Valvoline? [I dont know]
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
22,016
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K: There is absolutley nothing wrong with Valvoline All-Climate. It is a perfectly good API SL oil that meets every requirement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Castrol Syntec 5W-30 or 10W-30. For the record there is nothing wrong with Allied-Signal (Fram) Oil Filters either. They meet all the requirements for a OEM replacement. The bashing simply comes from the fact that superior products can be bought for less money.
This is an excellent post Gene! We often bash these products to the point where someone who just comes in here for the first time might think that they will actually cause engine damage, but in fact it's simply that there are better choices.
 
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2,664
Location
MN
quote:
We often bash these products to the point where someone who just comes in here for the first time might think that they will actually cause engine damage, but in fact it's simply that there are better choices.
I will agree with this statement 100%. I also agree that it is good to know if there are better products for the same money or less. For what it is worth I have had a couple vehicle that when well over 200,000 miles on Valvoline All Climate 5W30 and 10W30. I never had any consumption issues and the insides were very clean. I can't say anything bad about the oil.
 
Messages
13,132
Location
By Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by haley10: Valvoline never worked for me, because it would volatize and burn off, or at least it disappeared somewhere. If it works for you, give us some uoa's.
That relates to one of my main issues with All Climate. It had very shabby flash points as I recall.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
22,072
Location
Iowegia - USA
quote:
That said, picking on Valvoline products seems to be popular here, but where is the data to back it up?
We analyze and discuss all kinds of products, including Valvoline products. Opinions, experience, in-car testing and UOA's, you name it, every product get hit at least once.
 
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11,247
Location
PA
I was using Valvoline before BitOG. 5w-40 Synpower in my V6 A4, it seemed ok. I was using DuraBland too, it was not bad. I thought MaxLife was thick and bogging down my cars too much. My real complaint is with All-Climate, that stuff burned off like crazy. I had it in my Mother-in-Law's A6 because I was doing service out-of(my)-pocket and wanted to save $. Big mistake, it burned a quart per 1000-1500 miles! DCO was just as bad, if not worse. Recently, the whole PCV system had to be cleaned on that car. It gets 15w-40 or whatever cast-off synth I have around, consumption is as low as 1q in 3000-5000 miles. Doing ARX now on it.
 
Messages
13,132
Location
By Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul: FWIW, for all multigrades, both Durablend and Maxlife are at least 14 C higher in flash point than All Climate.
Correction. I failed to consider 5w20. Durablend and All Climate 5w20 have the same flash point.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I think TallPaul had it right earlier in this thread: Valvoline is an underdog here. But bashing?? I just don't see it here. People need to get around to other sites and see real "bashing." It's just not tolerated here unless some product fails utterly ... and don't expect that from something certified by API (overrated as they may be). --- Bror Jace
 
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4,933
Location
Lakeville, MN
As others have pointed out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Valvoline oils, and they will work just fine when used appropriately (IE: manufacturers specified itnervals, etc...). Simply a case of there usually being a better buy for the buck... Example: I used to regularly buy Durablend 5w30 for around 1.49 a quart. Over a year ago, Valvoline pricing seemed to go up and lie more in line with Pennzoil, and I can't find Durablend locally for less than $2.49 a quart. Unfortunately for Valvoline, there seems to be plenty of choices that cost less, last longer, and peform better in many applications... That being said, a nearly steady diet of Valvoline All Climate never did anything to hurt any of the family vehicles over the last 15+ years, even a steady diet of 5w30!
 
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