Wheel hop with a front wheel drive car on wet pavement

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4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
I bought a Mazda 3 Sport GT this week and I've had some front wheel hop issues with it, but only on wet pavement. It happened when I dumped the clutch on a 1-2 shift. I thought it would be easier on everything (compared to on dry pavement) because the tires would just slip easily. Was I ever wrong. [Duh!] It has also happened once when accelerating hard out of a turn in wet weather. My buddy has the same problem with his Acura 1.6EL. Why does this happen? Do all FWD's do it? This is my first standard so maybe I'm just doing something wrong.
 

JTK

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13,443
Location
Buffalo, NY
Real grippy tires will do this on FWD's. A HEAVY anti-sway bar may help a bit, but a little wheel hop beats a snapped CV joint, axle, or transaxle [Eek!] . Something has to give. G/luck Joel
 
Messages
199
Location
Michigan
I replaced two of the five motor mounts in my car with urethane ones (stock rubber ones have too much play in them, thus causing the engine to torque back too much causing wheel hop). I don't have wheel hop issues anymore. I chose not to replace all mounts because I did not want to feel every vibration the engine would emit into the cabin. I have a pretty good article explaining wheel hop, I just have to find away to get it on here..... [ May 22, 2004, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: HondaRD ]
 
Messages
12,385
Location
Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by JTK: Real grippy tires will do this on FWD's. A HEAVY anti-sway bar may help a bit, but a little wheel hop beats a snapped CV joint, axle, or transaxle [Eek!] . Something has to give. G/luck Joel
Wheel hop will cause broken parts, not prevent them. If you eliminate wheel hop, it's one long hard pull through each gear instead of hammering on the drive train every time a wheel hops.
 

rpn453

Thread starter
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4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
quote:
Originally posted by GSV: PS - How do you like the 3? I was looking at a brochure 2 days ago. Looks like a cool little car.
I like it a lot. My only complaints are the wet-weather wheel hop (which sounds like a problem common to all FWD's) and poor rearward visibility. I didn't think I'd like the gauges but they don't bother me at all while driving. Maybe I'll look into changing a couple motor mounts as HondaRD has done. The tires are 205/50R17 Goodyear RS-A's. Maybe when they need changing I'll put some touring tires on so that the tires will slip a little easier, ride quieter (not that I've noticed tire noise with the RS-A's), and last longer.
 
Messages
199
Location
Michigan
Go to the Prothane website or Energy Suspensions web site. They have motor mount inserts as well as sway bar end links and bushings. If you are under the car or working in the suspension you might as well spend the extra few dollars and replace you sway bar end links with urethane ones as the rubber ones will wear out over time and will develop some play in them. Most people don't notice things like this since it takes a lot of time for these parts to wear out. For the wheel hop, I would figure out which motor mounts are primary used to keep the engine from rocking under hard acceleration. In my case these were the two mounts located on the sides of the engine which some people refer to as torque mounts. Being that I am poor I chose an different route. Instead of spending $50 on the inserts I did what many people do when they cannot find aftermarket inserts for their vehicle. I bought a tube of 3M Windo-weld which is a polyurethane substance that is used to bond windshields to cars. When this stuff dries it is as hard as aftermarket inserts and works very well. I simply removed the rubber from the stock motor mounts and filled them with the Windo-weld. I must say it has worked very well. Here are some links to check it out: Wheel hop More on the subject
 

GSV

Messages
696
Location
Utah
Slow down. [Big Grin] FWD just does not come out of corners as well as AWD or RWD. [Cheers!] [Patriot] PS - How do you like the 3? I was looking at a brochure 2 days ago. Looks like a cool little car.
 
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143
Location
NH
I'm guessing you did not get the package with the traction control system which I'm guessing would alleviate some of this?
 

rpn453

Thread starter
Messages
4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
quote:
Originally posted by andyfish: I'm guessing you did not get the package with the traction control system which I'm guessing would alleviate some of this?
Nope, it's only available on the 6 here (don't know about the states). You're probably right that it would alleviate it but I don't really want traction control anyway. If I want to spin my tires that's my choice! [Burnout] I'll just go easy on the gas in the lower gears when the pavement is wet. Seems like the sensible thing to do for now.
 
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211
Location
Florida Panhandle
As stated earlier, urethane motor mounts will eliminate most if not all of your wheel-hop issue (then you'll be saying D4MN! Now I've got to get a limited slip diff for this thing [Razz] )...
 

rpn453

Thread starter
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4,844
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Saskatchewan
I've since found that dropping the tire pressure on my car to 28psi (from the recommended 32psi) pretty much eliminates wheel hop. The car is much more enjoyable to drive now.
 
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780
Location
Palatine IL
Kinda defeats the purpose of a performance tire. Stiffen the mounts, its the motors ability to move thats cases this. Urethane mounts and inserts will allow a lot more vibration into the chassis. You can sometime find softer uerathane or use silicone and just fill the open areas of a mount as a comprimise. Remove the mounts fill and replace. Do all the mounts with uerathane because if you fim one up the others get more stressed. Silicon is the softest material that will work and you could try to do just the front mount without tearing up the back. Take a couple days set however.
 
Messages
350
Location
Indianapolis, IN
I After 30 years, VW figured out how to stop FWD wheel hop. They employ a pendulum type engine mount system. When loaded up, it squats the suspension down, like a traction bar on a jacked up & tubbed-out 1970 Nova. When you stomp on it, the front-end digs in and off you go! Hats off to VW for this development!!! Now I won’t go into the one-time-use stretch bolts on their motor mounts, and how VW keeps a lot of their service spec’s privy. People don’t like it when they get a new timing belt, then 10k down the road the engine “falls out” of the car and does $10k in damage.
 
Messages
139
Location
Bremerton, WA
quote:
Originally Posted by XS650 Wheel hop will cause broken parts, not prevent them. If you eliminate wheel hop, it's one long hard pull through each gear instead of hammering on the drive train every time a wheel hops.
Absolutely right. All the limited slip diff's in the world won't help either. There are two solutions: Polyeurethane motor mounts (Prothane/energy/etc) Equal length half shafts Obviously, the latter is not always possible, but the former often is. For what it's worth, traction control probably won't have any effect on this situation other than making you accelerate more slowly. Most TCS systems simply cycle the ABS computer to slow down one or more of the wheels. I'm not a huge fan. Anyhow, until you figure out a way to completely eliminate wheel hop, step out of the throttle when it happens. It's incredibly hard on the axles & transaxle.
 

rpn453

Thread starter
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4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
I just ordered a polyurethane rear mount for my 3, so I'll see how that goes once I get it in. I've been wondering if the extra vibration would be worth it; I guess I'll find out now. This was the only manufacturer I could find, and they don't make mounts to replace the other three (which are liquid-filled mounts).
 
Messages
167
Location
ottawa ontario
My 5-speed 98 neon was getting bad for wheel hop. The front motor mount is a weak spot. Filled it with 3M windshield urethane. The other is the bobble strut (torque damper) replacing with a solid strut or further dampening of the stock one. This nearly eliminates wheel hop on a neon...assuming all else is in good shape Struts, bushings, etc need to be problem free.
 
Messages
151
Location
Massachusetts
If you really want to add traction control, Racelogic makes an aftermarket system, with adjustable levels of slip that can be turned completely off. It goes for about $800 and works by cutting spark to cylinders.
 
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