What's up with the Havoline group think/sheep herd mentality here?

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There's one thing I have learned while participating on a forum for several years: it's very much like a magazine subscription. After a few years, you see the same topics/thought patterns repeat themselves. I remember when Pennzoil had a stint on the petroleum pedestal because of it's great base oil/moly additive package. Then Motorcraft/Conoco sat on the pedestal because of it's fantastic UOA's without any moly. Moly this - moly that. Don't forget that Delvac Super/Delo 400 get comparable results, yet have very different chemistries. Now there is no equal to Havoline. Sheep - unite around Havoline! I say bullsh%#. Indeed Havoline has great bang for the buck. But there are others turning in great UOA's with almost any current product out there. I wish some of the more educated here would squash this Havoline group think take-over.
 
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I agree to some extent with what your saying, as my GC thread was a joke trying to poke fun at the GC cult mentality, however, most us on here are perfectionists and want the best. This in turn leads to really going over board with oil analysis wear metals. This whole board is overkill when you think about it. Havoline though has shown some of the best and most consistant results on this forum, that is why you see many taking on this "herd" mentality.
 
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I think Buster is right. One of my ex-girlfriends beat the **** out of her car and put the cheapest oil in the engine, but the car ran and ran. I on the other obsess about what oil is going to run in my truck, maybe I should be more like my ex?
 
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Well, when you have a cheap oil at a good price, it's no big deal. With our perfect cars like Chrysler, Saab, and Toyota all turning out sludgers, it pays to pay attention. Of course the site is overkill. A website devoted to people eeking out every bit of info they can about their motoroil? It's hilarious! With motor oil rising in price, it's nice to find out how good some of the cheaper dinos are and if that top tier synth is worth the extra money. While yes, I have bought a gallon or two of Havoline since being on here, I have also bought things like Supertech which I would have never done before b/c of the UOAs. As long as people don't yell or intimidate and just enjoy the site, does it really matter? We are ALL nuts. LOL
 
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It does get old after time but, if a product is turning in very good results there is nothing wrong with expressing it. Kind of like the Ford Pick Up v.s. Chevy Pick Up crowd. About a third of the guys a work are Ford lovers and the rest Chevy. We keep our work trucks for about 200,000 miles on average. We get the big three Ford, Chevy, and Dodge to use at work - whatever bid is lowest. The trucks all get severe usage. Funny to watch all the conversation on the topic between the guys. Ford guys tend to be nasty but, pull up the maintenance records on them. No matter if they are Gas or Diesel Fords at KDOT tend to have the most repairs of any of them. But, this is dismissed by the Ford guys as something they don't want to hear. Facts are facts. Personally, I like all of them. Chevys just seem to be the most comfortable. Dodge Cummins have the very good getup and go. Fords look to have very strong Chassis. Ones with the best maintenance records in gas and diesel are the Chevys where I work. In the end its all a matter of opinion. And you know what opinions are like and everyones got one.
 
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Doitmyself, I notice that the really smart guys don't respond to threads with questions like yours. I really wish they would but they haven't. It might go back to a repeated fact made by a very experienced and knowledgeable member no longer posting, that, "...there is no magic oil...". UOS do show very good results with Havoline oils but I've come to realize that UOAs do not reveal all we'd like to know. However, I do UOAs. In my past I've used Castrol, Mobil 1, Havoline, Chevron Supreme, Scheaffers Blend and their 9000 Full Syntetic. I now have Syntec 10W-40 in one of my engines. I am now intrigued with a Penzoil Platinum that meets ACEA A3/B3, and Havoline Syntetic that meets the same. I really want to settle down to one oil for my cars but we're still looking for a 'better' one. I wish one the experts would clear it all up for us but we don't see that. Perhaps that could be because no one oil is best for all applications. So, we're still playing this game. Fun.....
 
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Yea, I'll confess. Before joining this site, I thought oil was oil and the more expensive oil was, the better it must be. That was my concept. Oh yea, Up until Nov 2002, you think I would try diesel engine oil in my gas engine, HA! no way! Now this is my thinking today about oil. Cheap stuff is ok, would I try it? sure, so long as I have my LC & FP, but I have more respect for my truck than that. I don't feel it needs $8/qt oil. M1 suits me fine and based on UOA's research, I will continue to use it. Far as diesel oil, I would try Rotella, Delo etc... in a heartbeat. As far as Havoline is concerned, I would try it without loosing sleep or fingernails. I joined this site to learn and make my vehicles last as long as they can. Besides, learning to take care of each his own vehicle is fun IMO, I love changing my own oil and doing my own maintence, provided I'm not in over my head. I could keep rambling but I think you get my point,,,,,,op
 
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I think Buster is right. One of my ex-girlfriends beat the **** out of her car and put the cheapest oil in the engine, but the car ran and ran.......(abbreviated....) 1 out of every 100,000 cars off the production line is built to run faster, harder, longer, and to boot, built to do all that on the smell of an oily rag!!!!!!! However, us mere mortals here are not so lucky as to chance upon one of those "golden jalopies." Hence, the constant search for the perfect lubricant, such as GC.
 
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I think many people, such as myself, tend to truly believe and stick with what has worked over the course of their mechanical/driving time. My parents - for whatever reason - chose to use Havoline as the staple when they started driving, back when. Even before my Dad started working at his Dad's dealership. My Dad liked to "play" with engines, some needing rebuilt (old when purchased), some he just liked to tinker with - 2 in particular, a '69 Mustang, and a '72 Challenger. In the late 80's, after some odd thousands of miles on both cars, running Havoline, some "tinkering" began to take place. Now these were the 1st two cars they'd owned since basically brand-new, so they'd had a diet of nothing but Havoline. They were the first of the many engines he'd worked on that looked exceptionally clean, had low wear, and truly didn't "need" worked on. All the other cars that came through his hands - with some 50k or more miles - that needed engine work, their insides looked horrible. Now who knows what kind/brand of oil had ever been used in many of them. But you tend to stick with what works, for us it's Havoline. And I look at your comment the same as one saying that a Toyota or a Honda is the end-all best of the best. You go to a dealership, and they'll rip you off for that stupid "Toyota" name, or for instance, because I own one and have experienced it - take an Isuzu Rodeo for instance. Honda took part in staking a portion of the Isuzu Rodeo's and rebadged them to be a Honda Passport simply because they didn't have their own SUV up and coming - at the time. That Honda Passport is 100% an Isuzu, it's NOT a Honda, period. However, if you look on KBB, that Honda Passport, same year, same mileage, is worth more then an Isuzu Rodeo - but it IS an Isuzu. Now I'm not knocking Toyota, we have one that's 20+yrs old, I, like you and the Havoline, am just sick of them being broadcasted as the end all of the best when they have their faults. Yes, in the future, I will be getting a Toyota Tundra - just don't care for the $$$ of them.
 
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It's hard to squash the best dino UOAs here at BITOG that run into extended drains. But there's nothing wrong with oils like Castrol GTX, Chevron, Mobil DC 5000 and Pennzoil conventional finishing in the top-5 (my opinion). Actually, some outstanding 3K UOAs have been reported with Valvoline. The only knock on against it is extended OCIs. Almost all oils deliver well for 3K thou.
 
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Chevron Supreme,Havoline and Delo are all made by the same parent company with the same base stocks and simalar chemistries. Chevron Supreme can be hard to find but Havoline can be found every place. I do not think it is group think as much as itis availability. All of the apove represent good values and offer good performance.
 
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You might also look at the UOA results of the Chevron product lineup. They all do great other then their 5W30's shearing a bit more then I would like to see. THe UOA results always look good. FOr a long time Chevron Supreme was also very cheap while Walmart had it on the shelfs. Chevron Supreme started it all with it's great GII bas stock for $1.08-$1.29 a quart. Then when Walmart in most location decided to phase out Chevron Supreme all that was left was Havoline wich is almost identical to Chevron Supreme. The only Penzoil product that I recall being promoted here on bitog was the old Penzoil Long Life with moly. When Penzoil started puting Rotela in the bottle Penzoil LL lost support.
 
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FTR- I was using Chevron Supreme before I came here, that and Rotella Synth. I knew Techron was good product, so I thought how bad could the oil be? At that time, my experience with Mobil Drive Clean was bad, that was the only other lower priced name brand oil. Anyway, back to CS and Havoline... what I like about it is that I can mix it with Delo and get a nice oil without overdose of additives. I still have quite a few Havonine synth 5w-30s here....going in the Honda. If I wanted to thicken it for the Euro car, splash in some Delo. As for the group thing, it's actually nice that people can rally around one oil. I think of it as a benchmark...is another oil better or worse. I just "like" it, must be the blue container. [Cool]
 

Al

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I think JohnBrowning has some valid oints:
quote:
Chevron Supreme,Havoline and Delo are all made by the same parent company with the same base stocks and simalar chemistries. Chevron Supreme can be hard to find but Havoline can be found every place. I do not think it is group think as much as itis availability. All of the apove represent good values and offer good performance.
Cheap , Boatload of Moly, gives very good UOA's, readily available, good reputation. It has been on sale a few times at Advance. Sheep find comfort and safety in numbers as part of a herd..Baaaaaahhhh. [Happy] [Happy] [Happy]
 
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man, if you think havoline users are a bunch of sheep. what about the GC people? they have a whole forum dedicated to the stuff. [Cool]
 
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I'm glad everyone doesn't use Havoline because then there would be no reason to make a better oil. I used it for over 30 years before I ever did an analysis and frankly I didn't need one to validate it's worth. I also find it humorous that people mix different weights and a little of this and that to make a better oil. I reckon they are not real chemists but probably just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 

vad

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quote:
man, if you think havoline users are a bunch of sheep. what about the GC people? they have a whole forum dedicated to the stuff.
It's always the other guy... LOL
 
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I tried Havoline; my Quad seemed noisier. Tried Trop Artic; was quiet. Who knows; just keep trying until you find that liquid gold that your car will enjoy (while leaving money in your pocket [Big Grin] )
 
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I will quiclky admit that I'm a Havoline 'sheep', but its based on UOA's and he desire for a good value. Is that really worse than another 'sheep' who buys into mass marketing and blindly hands over $2/qt. for oil that is no better than the $1/qt. stuff?
 
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