It seems to me that if discount mineral oil can qualify as API SL or ILSAC GF-3, then these tests are a little weak. Amsoil has a page detailing how their 10W-30 oil passed a series IIIF test, and in fact did three times the required time and still passed with flying colors. So theoretically, an oil could just barely pass the basic requirements, but get the same rating as an oil that passed it much more easily. Does anyone know of a test which is so brutal that only the highest quality oils, perhaps only high quality synthetics, can pass?
What's the Toughest Test?
- Thread starter nicrfe1370
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Well, the European ACEA "A3/B4" and VW 502/505 tests are much more stringent, as are the DB 229.3/229.5 tests. Most of the xw-30, ACEA A3/B4 rated oils are synthetics or synthetic blends.
I agree about the API, SL tests - they are so easy to pass they are meaningless as a criteria for choosing oils. Even the recycled oil at Walmart carries the API seal of approval
TooSlick
I agree about the API, SL tests - they are so easy to pass they are meaningless as a criteria for choosing oils. Even the recycled oil at Walmart carries the API seal of approval
TooSlick
Kinda like the car they're put into just built to barely standup to the use expected from them. Petroleum oils can last 5,000 miles synthetics can last longer? 5,000miles on up to when it needs to be changed all depends .I always endup changing my synthetic oil at 6,000 miles by the time I change my filter might as well change the oil. Can,t help it
API Service Category SL is a floor. To add to what TooSlick said, the ACEA A5 rating is almost as good as A3 (A3 has higher HT/HS vis) and maybe the A5 is more available. A1 is ACEA's floor. "A" ratings are for gasoline engines and "B" ratings are for light diesels. "E" ratings are for heavy diesels, E5 being tops.
Mobil 1 0W-40 and Schaeffer #701 5W-30 and #703 10W-30 are some of the few oils rated API-SL, ACEA A3-02, and "Energy Conserving."
Ken
Mobil 1 0W-40 and Schaeffer #701 5W-30 and #703 10W-30 are some of the few oils rated API-SL, ACEA A3-02, and "Energy Conserving."
Ken
TooSlick and Ken2,
I had seen the ACEA specs before( HERE ), but I didn't check to see what oils did or did not meet them. After you mentioned them, I did a little more exploring, and sure enough, none of the mineral oils I saw met any ACEA spec. Some synthetic blends meet older ACEA specs, and only high quality full synthetics seem to meet the modern ACEA specs. Oddly, at least two well known brands of synthetic oil don't claim to meet ACEA spec, I don't know if they failed or just didn't bother attempting, I know tests like those can be real expensive.
I had seen the ACEA specs before( HERE ), but I didn't check to see what oils did or did not meet them. After you mentioned them, I did a little more exploring, and sure enough, none of the mineral oils I saw met any ACEA spec. Some synthetic blends meet older ACEA specs, and only high quality full synthetics seem to meet the modern ACEA specs. Oddly, at least two well known brands of synthetic oil don't claim to meet ACEA spec, I don't know if they failed or just didn't bother attempting, I know tests like those can be real expensive.
To answer your question as to what is the toughest test.
Answer.
In your car's engine for 5000-7500 miles and look at the analysis! The rest is all in the lab and although oils perform in a similar manner most of the time in your own engine many times they do not. Lab tests are only indicators!
Your own engine is the worst case scenario IMO
Answer.
In your car's engine for 5000-7500 miles and look at the analysis! The rest is all in the lab and although oils perform in a similar manner most of the time in your own engine many times they do not. Lab tests are only indicators!
Your own engine is the worst case scenario IMO
Patman
Staff member
Good answer!
Seeing impressive HTHS numbers and 4 ball wear numbers gives us a general idea of how good the oil is, but in reality it all means nothing if you get the oil analysis results back and it performs worse than with other oils you've tried.
The best explanation of the ACEA tests I've seen is on the lubrizol website @ 3w.Lubrizol.com. In the "Ready Reference Section.
The ACEA "A5/B5" oils that Ken referred to have high temp/high shear viscosities in the 2.9-3.4 Centipoise range, so they are a bit thinner than the ACEA, A3/B4 stuff. I have found you can use xw-30, ACEA, A3/B4 oils in place of the 0w-40/5w-40/10w-40 grades.
TooSlick
The ACEA "A5/B5" oils that Ken referred to have high temp/high shear viscosities in the 2.9-3.4 Centipoise range, so they are a bit thinner than the ACEA, A3/B4 stuff. I have found you can use xw-30, ACEA, A3/B4 oils in place of the 0w-40/5w-40/10w-40 grades.
TooSlick
TooSlick,
I'm starting to think about running a xW-30 (I currently run Amsoil 10W-40) with the ACEA spec. The more I researched the criteria required to meet ACEA specs, the more I began to respect those oils that could meet them. I like Amsoils S3000 5W-30, it seems to pass every test under the sun.
Spector, Patman
Yes, that is ultimately the final answer to determining the best oil for your specific vehicle and circumstances. I was just hoping for a lab test to narrow the search down; if one chose API's Sx rating, you would spend a lifetime trying all the oils!
Does anyone know if Redline meets ACEA specs, if not, why not? I searched their website with no luck finding any mention of it.
I'm starting to think about running a xW-30 (I currently run Amsoil 10W-40) with the ACEA spec. The more I researched the criteria required to meet ACEA specs, the more I began to respect those oils that could meet them. I like Amsoils S3000 5W-30, it seems to pass every test under the sun.
Spector, Patman
Yes, that is ultimately the final answer to determining the best oil for your specific vehicle and circumstances. I was just hoping for a lab test to narrow the search down; if one chose API's Sx rating, you would spend a lifetime trying all the oils!
Does anyone know if Redline meets ACEA specs, if not, why not? I searched their website with no luck finding any mention of it.
Patman
Staff member
I'm pretty sure they would meet those specs. Redline 5w30 and 10w30 both have HTHS ratings of 3.8, considerably better than most other 30wt oils. To get the ACEA A3 rating it needs to be 3.5 or higher. Mobil 1's 5w30 and 10w30 are only 3.2.
i know redline is not api cert.neither is synergyn schaffers is..
Amsoil's HD 5w-30 is a good choice. Also check delvac 1. Delvac 1 has some of the best specs. you can find.
Specs. though really don't tell the whole story as mentioned. Oil analysis is the only true way to tell which oil is holding up the best.
Specs. though really don't tell the whole story as mentioned. Oil analysis is the only true way to tell which oil is holding up the best.
nicrfe1370,
If I had a WRX I'd run either the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 or their Series 2000, 0w-30 in it. I'll probably end up using witchever of these two oils works better in my 225 hp, Audi TT quattro, with a 10,000 mile change interval.
Ted
If I had a WRX I'd run either the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 or their Series 2000, 0w-30 in it. I'll probably end up using witchever of these two oils works better in my 225 hp, Audi TT quattro, with a 10,000 mile change interval.
Ted
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