What's the best filter out of these?
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If you are worried about it you can compensate with a one time spend.
A filtermag will pull your particle count down at least one full ISO code and you can be right up there with the best there is.
According to Noria you'll get a 1.5X bump in surface lifespan.
UD
A filtermag will pull your particle count down at least one full ISO code and you can be right up there with the best there is.
According to Noria you'll get a 1.5X bump in surface lifespan.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
If you are worried about it you can compensate with a one time spend.
A filtermag will pull your particle count down at least one full ISO code and you can be right up there with the best there is.
According to Noria you'll get a 1.5X bump in surface lifespan.
Only if the particles are ferrous however. And according to Noria, filter magnets are most effective for larger particles (which are most likely to be trapped by the filter) in slow-moving oil streams. It isn't a uniform benefit and depends on the placement and type of magnet.
Quote:
As such, magnetic filters are not known for having well-defined micronic particle separation capability. Therefore, it is important to determine what micron filter rating is needed by the tribological components in the system, considering the oil viscosity, fluid flow rate through the filter, the properties of the challenge particles, etc.
If you are worried about it you can compensate with a one time spend.
A filtermag will pull your particle count down at least one full ISO code and you can be right up there with the best there is.
According to Noria you'll get a 1.5X bump in surface lifespan.
Only if the particles are ferrous however. And according to Noria, filter magnets are most effective for larger particles (which are most likely to be trapped by the filter) in slow-moving oil streams. It isn't a uniform benefit and depends on the placement and type of magnet.
Quote:
As such, magnetic filters are not known for having well-defined micronic particle separation capability. Therefore, it is important to determine what micron filter rating is needed by the tribological components in the system, considering the oil viscosity, fluid flow rate through the filter, the properties of the challenge particles, etc.
Filetrmag (according to them) is most effective at 4-22 Microns.
Perfect in auto app.
They claim at least one full iso drop as result of their tests.
zero downside- only upside in its use.
Filters and magnets are team working better together.
Interesting link
http://www.cable-associates.co.uk/files/...ed%208-1-11.pdf
Perfect in auto app.
They claim at least one full iso drop as result of their tests.
zero downside- only upside in its use.
Filters and magnets are team working better together.
Interesting link
http://www.cable-associates.co.uk/files/...ed%208-1-11.pdf
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It appears that link data is oriented towards hydraulic systems (and gearboxes) with numerous steel and iron components rather than for automobile engines. The Noria article I was referencing is the same way.
So there are filters with built-in magnets, and "aftermarket" magnets, right? Which ones are most effective for a typical automotive engine?
So there are filters with built-in magnets, and "aftermarket" magnets, right? Which ones are most effective for a typical automotive engine?
They specifically talk about engine life in the link.
They also claim 2-3 iso codes whereIve seen other filtermag claims a bit less in other areas, but everything I've seen indicates at least at least one code drop.
It's interesting reading.
I havent seen any filters with built in magnets, but Im sure someone has one somewhere that'll pop out of the blue with one.
Ive only dealt with OEM magnets and aftermarket magnets.
Id guess the half circle filter mount is probably most effective especially if you cover both sides.
I only use one side on my marine apps.
UD
They also claim 2-3 iso codes whereIve seen other filtermag claims a bit less in other areas, but everything I've seen indicates at least at least one code drop.
It's interesting reading.
I havent seen any filters with built in magnets, but Im sure someone has one somewhere that'll pop out of the blue with one.
Ive only dealt with OEM magnets and aftermarket magnets.
Id guess the half circle filter mount is probably most effective especially if you cover both sides.
I only use one side on my marine apps.
UD
Originally Posted By: horse123
I put the Wix in my cart along with Mag1 0w-20 on amazon to buy shortly, right when I'm ready to do my next oil change.
I doubt it's anywhere near the best filtering, but bypass being open a lot sounds not good.
Good choice! I keep looking at the Mag1 price on Amazon as well and then my local Napa does their $2.99 Syn sale and I stock up (end price is $16.00 including tax).
Most Wix filters are about 95% at 20 microns. Wix has a nominal rating of 15 microns so you should be getting at least 50% per pass at 15 microns... but nominal can be skewed too. It is better than the All oil filters fudge their claims and often with WIX they do not specify how they test compared to other companies fudging in different ways. At the end, it is almost impossible to make a good apples to apples comparison between filter makes as they all hide behind marketing speak.
If you want to hunt down a FRAM filter, they make a Subaru specific but it is extremely hard to find and only comes in the Orange Can. It is basically the Honeywell (former FRAM parent company) blue Subie filter. I think the efficiency was something like 96.5 at 25 or 30 microns... heck, it might be at 40. They are known to be fairly inefficient. The Rokis are not worth the extra. They do have better efficiency I think but they got busted for not getting to the right bypass spec (something in the high teens, not the 23-27 range).
I put the Wix in my cart along with Mag1 0w-20 on amazon to buy shortly, right when I'm ready to do my next oil change.
I doubt it's anywhere near the best filtering, but bypass being open a lot sounds not good.
Good choice! I keep looking at the Mag1 price on Amazon as well and then my local Napa does their $2.99 Syn sale and I stock up (end price is $16.00 including tax).
Most Wix filters are about 95% at 20 microns. Wix has a nominal rating of 15 microns so you should be getting at least 50% per pass at 15 microns... but nominal can be skewed too. It is better than the All oil filters fudge their claims and often with WIX they do not specify how they test compared to other companies fudging in different ways. At the end, it is almost impossible to make a good apples to apples comparison between filter makes as they all hide behind marketing speak.
If you want to hunt down a FRAM filter, they make a Subaru specific but it is extremely hard to find and only comes in the Orange Can. It is basically the Honeywell (former FRAM parent company) blue Subie filter. I think the efficiency was something like 96.5 at 25 or 30 microns... heck, it might be at 40. They are known to be fairly inefficient. The Rokis are not worth the extra. They do have better efficiency I think but they got busted for not getting to the right bypass spec (something in the high teens, not the 23-27 range).
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
They claim...
If you want to do the magnet thing, feel free as it will not hurt anything... but it really does not do any significant to help you. Pure placebo. If it did work, every OEM would be doing it.
That being said, even the inefficient filters will collect the 4-22 micron items, it just takes multiple passes through the filter. So a 95% at 20 micron will still capture those 6 micron particles. For example, my Toyota's wix is listed as 2/20=6/20 .... which equates to capturing 50% of all particles at 6 microns (and 95% at 20). So it accomplishes the same thing as the magnet.
They claim...
If you want to do the magnet thing, feel free as it will not hurt anything... but it really does not do any significant to help you. Pure placebo. If it did work, every OEM would be doing it.
That being said, even the inefficient filters will collect the 4-22 micron items, it just takes multiple passes through the filter. So a 95% at 20 micron will still capture those 6 micron particles. For example, my Toyota's wix is listed as 2/20=6/20 .... which equates to capturing 50% of all particles at 6 microns (and 95% at 20). So it accomplishes the same thing as the magnet.
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
UD
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
UD
Yes, where it can do some good. But only on components where there are wearing steel parts, such as gearboxes and transmissions.
A magnet anyhere on my BMW engine would be worthless, for example.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
A magnet anyhere on my BMW engine would be worthless, for example.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
For certain places like the diff where it is a closed area without a filter, a magnetic plug makes sense. It is the lowest point (hopefully) and when stuff settles out, then the magnet has a chance to keep something from going back up. However, an oil filter is not one of those applications. It is not the lowest area for something to settle nor does it have a large volume to "filter". Also, the magnets must be removed otherwise the items stay in the engine so to speak and why adding a bunch of magnets to the pan is a bad idea.
Still, you are not doing anything that the filter itself is not capable of doing.
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
For certain places like the diff where it is a closed area without a filter, a magnetic plug makes sense. It is the lowest point (hopefully) and when stuff settles out, then the magnet has a chance to keep something from going back up. However, an oil filter is not one of those applications. It is not the lowest area for something to settle nor does it have a large volume to "filter". Also, the magnets must be removed otherwise the items stay in the engine so to speak and why adding a bunch of magnets to the pan is a bad idea.
Still, you are not doing anything that the filter itself is not capable of doing.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
For certain places like the diff where it is a closed area without a filter, a magnetic plug makes sense. It is the lowest point (hopefully) and when stuff settles out, then the magnet has a chance to keep something from going back up. However, an oil filter is not one of those applications. It is not the lowest area for something to settle nor does it have a large volume to "filter". Also, the magnets must be removed otherwise the items stay in the engine so to speak and why adding a bunch of magnets to the pan is a bad idea.
Still, you are not doing anything that the filter itself is not capable of doing.
So you think your filter is catching 2-5's really well?
The filter is the one area where all of the oil will ultimately pass through and it makes sense to trap it there.
Of course the fines have then gone through your oil pump to get there, and a magnetic plug may have caught them
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can, or drain plug to begin with?
Going to disagree without being disagreeable.
cheap cheap cheap filter helper.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Almost every OEM does put magnets somewhere. Drain plugs, trans, diff plugs they are all over. Usually not very good ones though.
So if using the "does the OEM do it" logic prevails there is your answer.
If filtermags testing is to be trusted and using one does drop an ISO code its effect becomes very real.
"Most efficient" is one size bracket- they are still effective down to 2 which is bypass territory.
If you can stop the particles before they go round and round through your bearings and parts why not?
For certain places like the diff where it is a closed area without a filter, a magnetic plug makes sense. It is the lowest point (hopefully) and when stuff settles out, then the magnet has a chance to keep something from going back up. However, an oil filter is not one of those applications. It is not the lowest area for something to settle nor does it have a large volume to "filter". Also, the magnets must be removed otherwise the items stay in the engine so to speak and why adding a bunch of magnets to the pan is a bad idea.
Still, you are not doing anything that the filter itself is not capable of doing.
So you think your filter is catching 2-5's really well?
The filter is the one area where all of the oil will ultimately pass through and it makes sense to trap it there.
Of course the fines have then gone through your oil pump to get there, and a magnetic plug may have caught them
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can, or drain plug to begin with?
Going to disagree without being disagreeable.
cheap cheap cheap filter helper.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can
That tells me the filter did its job! You do know the flow direction of your engine oil right? Particles in the pan or the can are fine. You do not want it moving past the filter and with the current efficiencies of even the budget filters (see the low Toyota filters) there is little worry for engine life. There does come a point of diminished returns.
Again, magnets only work for magnetic particles.... so ...
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can
That tells me the filter did its job! You do know the flow direction of your engine oil right? Particles in the pan or the can are fine. You do not want it moving past the filter and with the current efficiencies of even the budget filters (see the low Toyota filters) there is little worry for engine life. There does come a point of diminished returns.
Again, magnets only work for magnetic particles.... so ...
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I prefer Mobil 1 and Fram Ultra - but on Ford EcoBoost (only) use MC FL500s - reason is the bypass numbers don't line up on my favorite two ...
As for magnets - two in the pan of the 4L60e - one of the most common workhorse trans ever built. Mine always had plenty fuzz - so spent a whole $39 bucks to add MagnaFilter to XG16 remote. Plan to pull with 20k and see what it holds
As for magnets - two in the pan of the 4L60e - one of the most common workhorse trans ever built. Mine always had plenty fuzz - so spent a whole $39 bucks to add MagnaFilter to XG16 remote. Plan to pull with 20k and see what it holds
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can
That tells me the filter did its job! You do know the flow direction of your engine oil right? Particles in the pan or the can are fine. You do not want it moving past the filter and with the current efficiencies of even the budget filters (see the low Toyota filters) there is little worry for engine life. There does come a point of diminished returns.
Again, magnets only work for magnetic particles.... so ...
Totally aware of oil flow direction and the magnets only catch ferrous metal.
If the filter caught them in the pleats they wouldn't be stuck to the side of the can caught by a magnet would they ?
Those particles probably went round and round a few times before the magnet caught them on the side where its stuck to a filter.
Like 98 Vs 99 % efficient filters@X yes its a dimishing return, but a return no less.
If you believe "every little bit of help counts" then they make sense if not to each his own.
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
If the oil filter does such a good job why are the fines on the can
That tells me the filter did its job! You do know the flow direction of your engine oil right? Particles in the pan or the can are fine. You do not want it moving past the filter and with the current efficiencies of even the budget filters (see the low Toyota filters) there is little worry for engine life. There does come a point of diminished returns.
Again, magnets only work for magnetic particles.... so ...
Totally aware of oil flow direction and the magnets only catch ferrous metal.
If the filter caught them in the pleats they wouldn't be stuck to the side of the can caught by a magnet would they ?
Those particles probably went round and round a few times before the magnet caught them on the side where its stuck to a filter.
Like 98 Vs 99 % efficient filters@X yes its a dimishing return, but a return no less.
If you believe "every little bit of help counts" then they make sense if not to each his own.
UD
Wix rep had 0 idea what he was talking about. I asked him the efficiency of the 57055 @ 20 microns and he said "they're only rated to 15 microns and that's how they've always been"... clearly had no idea what I was asking. Didn't provide a percentage at 15 microns or anything.
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