What's Castrol's bad rap?
- Thread starter SHOZ
- Start date
- Status
Castrol was the first company to use a GIII base oil and call it "synthetic". After Castrol got away with it, most other blenders followed suit.
Here's a link to an article by Patrick Bedard that talks about Castrol's moves in the late 90's to cheapen their product but keep it hidden from their customers.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3631
You can decide for youself...
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3631
You can decide for youself...
SHOZ, TSOA just does not like me or my low opion of Castrol. A few years back Castrol got into the synthetic game. They were buying IV/V base stocks from Mobil. Then Castrol found a new way to finicaily rape customers. Instead of useing true synthetic base stocks they desided they would use highly refined conventional group III base oil wich costs less then half the price of a true group IV/V base stock and continue to charge a premium synthetic price. THey of course were not going to tell the customer this or pass any saveing on to the customer.
Mobil oil sues them for false advertiseing. Well it turns out that the API lacking a back bone of any kind caves in and fearing any more lawsuits abolish's it's definition of what a true synthetic base oil is. So once API does this then their is no industry standard by wich to judge the word synthetic. So now it becomes a marketing term open to interpretation. Sythetic by it's nature means to synthesise but it does say from what or to what level. By this defination crude being refined to make group I oil could be considered synthsiesed and thus "synthetic" by marketing standards. THis means that Castrol can but basicly anything in a bottle and call it synthetic and so can the rest of the industry. It means you can be treated like a punk or a mark and have your wallet fleeced by the big oil companys if they choose to.... Mobile is the only one that tried to proctect the consumers right to a true synthetic. They are competeing against companys that use cheaper ingriedients and charge a higher price to the end consumer!
If you read very many of TSOA posts you will quickly see why he has no credability with me!!! He is all smoke and mirrors. He is the guy that claims Mobil 1 causes engines to blow up but offers no proof. Rest assured if you press him for any proof he make himself out to be a victim.
I do not pretend to know much but I know when I am being taken for a fool and lied to. I do not like it when companys out right lie and cheat customers out of hard earned money!I do not think that it is right to sell your customer an pound of gold but deliver an pound of lead instead!
Mobil oil sues them for false advertiseing. Well it turns out that the API lacking a back bone of any kind caves in and fearing any more lawsuits abolish's it's definition of what a true synthetic base oil is. So once API does this then their is no industry standard by wich to judge the word synthetic. So now it becomes a marketing term open to interpretation. Sythetic by it's nature means to synthesise but it does say from what or to what level. By this defination crude being refined to make group I oil could be considered synthsiesed and thus "synthetic" by marketing standards. THis means that Castrol can but basicly anything in a bottle and call it synthetic and so can the rest of the industry. It means you can be treated like a punk or a mark and have your wallet fleeced by the big oil companys if they choose to.... Mobile is the only one that tried to proctect the consumers right to a true synthetic. They are competeing against companys that use cheaper ingriedients and charge a higher price to the end consumer!
If you read very many of TSOA posts you will quickly see why he has no credability with me!!! He is all smoke and mirrors. He is the guy that claims Mobil 1 causes engines to blow up but offers no proof. Rest assured if you press him for any proof he make himself out to be a victim.
I do not pretend to know much but I know when I am being taken for a fool and lied to. I do not like it when companys out right lie and cheat customers out of hard earned money!I do not think that it is right to sell your customer an pound of gold but deliver an pound of lead instead!
Synthetic is what VW should require in their turbocharged cars, but you have to ask for it, and then the VW dealers charge you $8+ (for Castrol SynTec, the only 'synthetic' oil available at a US VW dealer) for something that by pre-law suit definition isn't even synthetic.
That $8+ is more than a lot of Group V true synthetics, but it costs Castrol and VW a lot less than the Group IVs or Vs to make and sell. If it worked as well, I might not feel as bad paying a Group III price for it (say, $4, not $8!), but many think it isn't even all that great a Group III anyway...
Do I feel like VW and Castrol are cramming an overpriced oil down my throat, because *I* care about my car more than VW does (don't forget VW gave me a 3.7 quart sump, too
)? Um, yes?
[ December 06, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: 1781cc ]
That $8+ is more than a lot of Group V true synthetics, but it costs Castrol and VW a lot less than the Group IVs or Vs to make and sell. If it worked as well, I might not feel as bad paying a Group III price for it (say, $4, not $8!), but many think it isn't even all that great a Group III anyway...
Do I feel like VW and Castrol are cramming an overpriced oil down my throat, because *I* care about my car more than VW does (don't forget VW gave me a 3.7 quart sump, too
[ December 06, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: 1781cc ]
Hi,
JohnBrowning - Castrol have been involved in synthetic lubricant manufacture and marketing a very very long time. I suspect since the mid 1930's in Germany. Burmah's castor based oils were once a mainstay in racing engines for decades - they were called Castrol "R"
I first used Castrol "R Synthetic" 15w-60 ( today a 10w-60 ) a "modern" synthetic, in the 1970s. And I used it successfully for nearly two decades in various formulations and in both petrol and diesel engines. A truely excellent product
Their gear oils had/have an enviable International reputation - but you know all of this I'm sure
Castrol has now become a tardy marketing arm of BP and I have watched its actions in Australia which have been most devastating to staff and clients. Others on here from OZ have verified this. Sadly to me they are a "once was" - all the more so after watching their actions here over the now withdrawn German
Castrol SLX 0w-30. Many questions still remain unanswered
Whilst their products may still be excellent I am no longer a developng user - I'm now a progressive non user.
I use Mobil and any other truely cost/effective products
I must add that the Exxon-Mobil marriage has had its issues here too and not unlike BP-Castrol
But at least they tell the truth in the market place
Regards
JohnBrowning - Castrol have been involved in synthetic lubricant manufacture and marketing a very very long time. I suspect since the mid 1930's in Germany. Burmah's castor based oils were once a mainstay in racing engines for decades - they were called Castrol "R"
I first used Castrol "R Synthetic" 15w-60 ( today a 10w-60 ) a "modern" synthetic, in the 1970s. And I used it successfully for nearly two decades in various formulations and in both petrol and diesel engines. A truely excellent product
Their gear oils had/have an enviable International reputation - but you know all of this I'm sure
Castrol has now become a tardy marketing arm of BP and I have watched its actions in Australia which have been most devastating to staff and clients. Others on here from OZ have verified this. Sadly to me they are a "once was" - all the more so after watching their actions here over the now withdrawn German
Castrol SLX 0w-30. Many questions still remain unanswered
Whilst their products may still be excellent I am no longer a developng user - I'm now a progressive non user.
I use Mobil and any other truely cost/effective products
I must add that the Exxon-Mobil marriage has had its issues here too and not unlike BP-Castrol
But at least they tell the truth in the market place
Regards
I was aware that Castrol once had a Synthetic product a long time ago. I have heard the tales correctly they were based on esters of seed oils and had great lubricty but ran dirty?? I could be getting this wrong too! Here in the USA prior to the Syntec brand from Castrol they were non players in the synthetic game.From my youthful perspective. Bear in mind I am only 30 years old so alot of the older history on lubricants I am still learning from the older guys on this site! It still does not change the fact they lied to their loyal customers and fleeced us and continue to do so to this day. I was a loyal customer of Castrol for a long time and so was my Father. I feel that they betrayed me as a consumer.
Doug thanks for correcting me.
Hi,
John - yes Castrol's oils were very dirty runners!
We had many problems with cold sludging using Castolite, XL and XXL. They were at their VERY WORST in the 1950's. And in Australia, NZ, England, Scandinavia - all the same!
I stop using them from the late 1950's because of this and only started again when their Castrol R Synthetic 15w-60 was introduced in the 1970's
I am 64 but you may not learn much from me except that it is a sunny 34c today ( Sunday 7th 2.15 pm ) here in the tropics!
Regards
[ December 07, 2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]
John - yes Castrol's oils were very dirty runners!
We had many problems with cold sludging using Castolite, XL and XXL. They were at their VERY WORST in the 1950's. And in Australia, NZ, England, Scandinavia - all the same!
I stop using them from the late 1950's because of this and only started again when their Castrol R Synthetic 15w-60 was introduced in the 1970's
I am 64 but you may not learn much from me except that it is a sunny 34c today ( Sunday 7th 2.15 pm ) here in the tropics!
Regards
[ December 07, 2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]
It seems to be a combination of Castrols bait and switch tactics with the majority of the Syntec line and the fact that lots of others have followed suit and are now selling Group III oil as "full synthetic".
That being said I do like the German Castrol 0w-30 Syntec very much. As long as this particular formula remains I will probably keep buying it.
Do I trust Castrol? Well, I'm using this site as a resource to help keep an eye on them.
That being said I do like the German Castrol 0w-30 Syntec very much. As long as this particular formula remains I will probably keep buying it.
Do I trust Castrol? Well, I'm using this site as a resource to help keep an eye on them.
Patman
Staff member
Bingo! This is exactly what I'm doing. If they did end up ruining the GC 0w30 formula somehow, I'll just switch over to Amsoil instead.
I would guess that JohnBrowning is not related to Lord Browne?
My distrust of Castrol comes from their different standards for different countries. A few years ago a Brazilian Car Mag rated the oils made there and Castrol was lowest on the list. What comes in here is advertised as Made in USA but in small print on the bottles is Hecho en Peru. It works in the areas of the country where 50% can't read and write, but I don't go for it.
Excellent post, Doug, very objective, factual, intelligently written. I, too, am becoming a "progressive non user" of Castrol. But the fact remains that some forms of Castrol do work, and do work well. See my UOA report on Castrol GTX 10w-40 in Suzuki Sidekick. I think it is the Syntec that some people do not like, but the dinosaur GTX Castrol, I do not hear too many negative comments about it. I mean, $8.00 for a gallon jug, and lower wear numbers than many synthetics? Who'd not want such a deal?
In the next 6 or 12 months, I will try Chevron and Schaeffer. If they work for me, I will stick with them. If not, I will go back to Castrol GTX.
I just put Castrol Formula R 5W30 'synthetic' in my Outback yesterday for RX rinse phase. Castrol tech told me zero PAO or ester in this syn (great for RX rinse) but still sell at syn pricing A$50 for 5-litres. Would you trust these guys?
Patman
Staff member
How come you're using an expensive synthetic oil for the rinse phase instead of a low cost conventional like Pennzoil?
What conventional oils do you guys in Australia get anyways? And how much do they cost?
Offtopic: my son is obsessed with the movie Finding Nemo, we've been watching it every single day since the DVD came out! I'm just curious, in the movie one of the ways they find out where Nemo was taken, is by the divers mask which gets dropped into the water, with the diver's name and address on it. His address is listed as Sydney, NSW. What is NSW? Is that a province in Australia?
I don't know how Mr. John Browning became the subject of my post. I guess I said the magic word? Fact is: I have zero disslikes as far as other board members go, even ones who have slandered me, who even keeps track?
It seems more than a little paranoid of you to assert this, and I am compelled now to veiw your comments about Castrol the same way, delusional. You spew a bunch of analysis about the GIII product market when Castrol found it to be cost-effective to change their base oil. How do you know all this about "APIs backbone" and non-existant lawsuits and what the other motor oil companies were ready to do as far as releasing GIII "synthetics" of their own? Look at the list of GIII products on the market now, your trumpeting of Mobil rings a little hollow as far as nobody is listening. You, John, are placing yourself at odds with a fairly arbitrated settlement and expert testimony and the entirety or the motor oil industry when you make your wild assertions. This nonsense is a waste of the forum member's time. Nothing personal, but you live in a Fantasy World.
New South Whales
Patman the Castrol was the only dino oil I could find with decent viscosity (12.2 cSt @ 100C) than the Pennzoil 5W30 I used through winter for RX clean and also the only one guaranteed to have no PAO or ester. Price was OK too. I'll run it for 6,500kms this summer with maybe a fliter change half way through. After 3 bottles of RX it sure will be clean engine!!
- Status
Similar threads
