What's better than a Crown Vic?

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by emmett442
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6

My first car was a 1993 P71 interceptor. The engine was blown (messed up), so we put a 5.4L Triton in it, and slapped the 4.6L intake on it. It actually ran just fine. I never did race anything in it, so I have no clue if it was faster or slower than the 4.6. I never really loved the thing though, and the only thing I miss about it are the memories of building it with my Dad and Grandpa.


Those memories (with family) are some of the best

The 5.4L would have been 230HP versus the 215 from the 4.6L, so it should have been a bit quicker. Did you guys fab up an adapter plate? The 5.4L has a higher deck height than the 4.6L, just like the 351W vs the 302, so the intake wouldn't just bolt on.

I was not present for all of the things, but the intake did seem to bolt right on, now...did I miss out on some step done without me? Mayhap so. But I did see the intake on the former engine, had long truck runners.



Because the 5.4 deck height is greater than the 4.6, the heads are also farther apart. 4.6 intake does not simply bolt on to a 5.4.


Who knows? Did they make a 4.6L with a long aluminum runner intake? They bought the engine off the back of a truck at a gas station, lol! It may NOT have been a 5.4L truth be told, but that's what they told me it was and what they were told it was.


EDIT:
*Googling, apparently they did. The Triton 4.6L was a "thing". Looks like what I experienced: A near wash in performance (I have no idea what swapping intake manifolds accomplished power wise, but it was rated at 290# torque vs. 270# torque for what came in my vehicle, and 220bhp vs. the 210). Interestingly and amusingly, my current compact SUV has more horsepower and more torque than was ever put in a Crown Vic, minus the 2004+ PI intereceptors, which tied it for HP but not torque. All with a 4 cylinder engine, similar curb weight, more ground clearance, AWD, and far better mpg. Oh the joy of technology!)

 

[nthach]

And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by nthach
And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.

You are correct. They also got a posi-trak diff, which was nice.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by emmett442
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6

My first car was a 1993 P71 interceptor. The engine was blown (messed up), so we put a 5.4L Triton in it, and slapped the 4.6L intake on it. It actually ran just fine. I never did race anything in it, so I have no clue if it was faster or slower than the 4.6. I never really loved the thing though, and the only thing I miss about it are the memories of building it with my Dad and Grandpa.


Those memories (with family) are some of the best

The 5.4L would have been 230HP versus the 215 from the 4.6L, so it should have been a bit quicker. Did you guys fab up an adapter plate? The 5.4L has a higher deck height than the 4.6L, just like the 351W vs the 302, so the intake wouldn't just bolt on.

I was not present for all of the things, but the intake did seem to bolt right on, now...did I miss out on some step done without me? Mayhap so. But I did see the intake on the former engine, had long truck runners.



Because the 5.4 deck height is greater than the 4.6, the heads are also farther apart. 4.6 intake does not simply bolt on to a 5.4.


Yup, that's what I was driving at, hence the inquiry about an adapter plate. Same was the case with the 351W, the LIM was significantly wider than the one for the 302/289.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Ws6


Who knows? Did they make a 4.6L with a long aluminum runner intake? They bought the engine off the back of a truck at a gas station, lol! It may NOT have been a 5.4L truth be told, but that's what they told me it was and what they were told it was.


EDIT:
*Googling, apparently they did. The Triton 4.6L was a "thing". Looks like what I experienced: A near wash in performance (I have no idea what swapping intake manifolds accomplished power wise, but it was rated at 290# torque vs. 270# torque for what came in my vehicle, and 220bhp vs. the 210). Interestingly and amusingly, my current compact SUV has more horsepower and more torque than was ever put in a Crown Vic, minus the 2004+ PI intereceptors, which tied it for HP but not torque. All with a 4 cylinder engine, similar curb weight, more ground clearance, AWD, and far better mpg. Oh the joy of technology!)


Yeah, sounds like you ended up with a truck 4.6L, that makes more sense.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by nthach
And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.


It was the exact same engine, there was nothing done to the CVPI engine to make it mechanically different from the same engine found in the civilian Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car. The CVPI's typically all got dual exhaust, oil coolers, trans coolers and I believe the power steering cooler along with heavier duty suspension, upgraded alternator, calibrated speedometer and typically deeper rear gears.

The better gearing is what made them feel faster than their civilian counterparts.

 

[javacontour]

You mean it didn't get the "cop chip?"

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by nthach
And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.


It was the exact same engine, there was nothing done to the CVPI engine to make it mechanically different from the same engine found in the civilian Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car. The CVPI's typically all got dual exhaust, oil coolers, trans coolers and I believe the power steering cooler along with heavier duty suspension, upgraded alternator, calibrated speedometer and typically deeper rear gears.

The better gearing is what made them feel faster than their civilian counterparts.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by javacontour
You mean it didn't get the "cop chip?"

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by nthach
And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.


It was the exact same engine, there was nothing done to the CVPI engine to make it mechanically different from the same engine found in the civilian Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car. The CVPI's typically all got dual exhaust, oil coolers, trans coolers and I believe the power steering cooler along with heavier duty suspension, upgraded alternator, calibrated speedometer and typically deeper rear gears.

The better gearing is what made them feel faster than their civilian counterparts.



LOL! I think the only thing different in the PCM for the P71's was that they may have had a different speed limiter on them

That was about it.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Oh the joy of technology!)

The new(as in not an Essex V6 derivative) base V6 Ford is installing in the F-150 makes more HP but less torque than the 4.6L Triton or the 4.2L Essex V6. GM still offered the 4.3L Vortec and FCA was probably still using the PowerTech 3.7 as the base engine. Ford only offers the 3.5/3.7L V6s along with a diesel I5 for the Transit.

Years ago, a V6-powered truck was considered a dog. Now the base V6s are decently acceptable.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted by nthach
I've read that GM did bring over the Holden Commodore in Calais or Brougham trim from Australia to the Middle East and called it the Chevy Caprice - much like how the US export from Oz was called the Caprice PPV or SS. I'm guessing the Crown Vic/Grand Monkey provided a better value proposition than the Holdens did?


GM brought back the Caprice nameplate in 2000 by rebadging a Holden Statesman WH as a Chevrolet Caprice, initially available with a Gen III 5.7L V8 producing 295 bhp and a 4L60E as the only option. The Holden Commodore VT was brought back as the Chevrolet Lumina with a Buick 3.8L V6 and 4L60E, which was strange because the Lumina was never a big seller for Chevrolet in the Middle East, much like the Ford Taurus wasn't for Ford. But it was brought back as a direct competitor to Japanese offerings like the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, etc. This was essentially what GM called Project 127, an attempt to sell the Commodore as a Buick in the United States that was terminated in 1994. The design of the Commodore was based off a Buick concept car, the XP2000. Both vehicles were based off the GM V-Platform, originally developed by Opel in Germany.

Sales were initally pretty good, as people associated the Statesman with Caprice Classics of the 70s, 80s and 90s. People have a love affair with fullsize American sedans here, which is why Ford's Panther platform was immensely popular. But people perceived the Caprice as being more European than American in terms of design - gone was the traditional column shifter, huge split bench seats and a foot operated parking brake and replaced with buckets, a floor shifter and a handbrake. The top of the line Caprice, named the Caprice Royale, almost cut into Cadillac sales and the Caprice SS made an appearance again - the '94-'96 Impala SS was sold as the Caprice SS in the Middle East, as people traditionally leaned more toward the Caprice in the 1970s. The Caprice was fast, and quite different than the old body-on-frame vehicles GM had offered in the past, but electrical problems were an issue as were cooling system problems. It didn't prove to be as big of a seller as the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis, both of which gained huge popularity in 1998. After the Caprice left the market in 1996, and a special "Collector's Edition" was sold as a 1997, the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis came in quite strong with a complete redesign in 1998.

A year after the Caprice was introduced, Ford started offering the 4.6L with Performance-Improved (PI) cylinder heads, bumping up horsepower to 235 hp. Because horsepower in the Middle East was measured in SAE Gross and not SAE Net, this translated to 265 hp, which was 30 hp short of the Caprice. The U.S. started using SAE Net in 1972, in comparison. This was bumped up again to 239 hp in 2003, or 269 hp SAE Gross, after Ford added knock sensors to the 4.6L and redesigned the Grand Marquis to share more body panels with the Crown Victoria in an attempt to further cut cost. The Panther platform was now completely redesigned under the skin, with a different frame, rack and pinion steering and a redesigned suspension all initially designed around the Marauder, which for some reason Ford never sold in the Mdidle East. Sales for the Panther platform remained strong, but grey imports of the Mercury Marauder was a thing.

It wasn't until the Statesman WM appeared in 2006 that GM started getting a decent share of sales. This was sold as the Caprice PPV in the United States and the Buick Park Avenue in China. Gone was the Lumina, and replaced with the infamous 3.6L V6 (LY7) from the Cadillac CTS as an available option on the Caprice. The Gen III 5.7L V8 was replaced with a 6.0L (L98). The transmission was now the 5L40E.

Ford redesigned the Grand Marquis for 2006, adding a different instrument cluster with a tachometer this time, but this came with additional cost cutting measures. Everything pretty much remained carry over until 2012 because it was pretty much a cash cow for Ford; the equipment and plant were long paid for, no significant investment was made in development since the early 2000s, it just brought money in because people kept buying it.

The Caprice was killed off in 2017, which gave GM fullsize RWD market share for an additonal five years. Although it had more bells and whistles, a more advanced powertrain and better performance, it didn't quite enjoy the same level of demand as the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis. Primary reasons were the Panther platform had a proven track record in terms of reliability over the course of its production, parts were readily and easily available, they were easy to work on and they gave owners that sense of nostalgia associated with big American cars of the 70s, 80s and 90s. They're still immensely popular, and as mentioned previously, have gone up in value on the used car market. You get a lot of younger folks buying them too, not due to lack of funds because most of them are well capable of buying high end cars brand new, but more because of the car's image - something it hasn't had in its home market for years.

From a personal perspective, "dinosaur" or not, I not only share the same sense of nostalgia the Arabs have for these cars, but there hasn't been anything on the new car market that's gotten my interest. As someone else mentioned, if something goes wrong, you can build and rebuild these cars an infinite number of times. I love the fullsize GM trucks, and drive a Suburban or Yukon XL every day at work, as well as whenenver I head back to the States. But going back to my Grand Marquis always has a different feel; granted mine is anything but stock. Some folks argue I could have bought a handful of used cars, or a brand new car at the very least for what I spent on my Marquis, but to each, their own and my money, my vehicle. Modified Panther vehicles are quite a head turner around here.

 

[javacontour]

Oh, I'm familiar, it's just a running joke in Panther forums...

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by javacontour
You mean it didn't get the "cop chip?"



LOL! I think the only thing different in the PCM for the P71's was that they may have had a different speed limiter on them

That was about it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by javacontour
Oh, I'm familiar, it's just a running joke in Panther forums...

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by javacontour
You mean it didn't get the "cop chip?"



LOL! I think the only thing different in the PCM for the P71's was that they may have had a different speed limiter on them

That was about it.



Gotcha

 

[Traction]

I had considered the Crown cop car many times after owning a 90 Caprice 9C1 many years ago, which was a great car. Now I'm having fun driving a 13 Tahoe PPV with Michelin x-ice for winter, and Goodyear cop tires for summer.

 

[Surestick]

Originally Posted by nthach
And wasn't the CVPI engine more or less the 4.6L Mod V8 with better flowing heads and on the latest production run a less restrictive intake along with the usual suite of fluid coolers?

I have to explain to my friends who think a cop car is something special but the only major differences is heavy-duty suspension, auxillary power feeds for on-board equipment, no speed limiter, heavy-duty cooling and a calibrated speedo.


To be fair, the CVPI handles a lot better than a big boat that size has any right to.