What's best for extended drains: GC, M1 or something else?

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john_ertw

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Apr 14, 2004
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Toronto, Canada
I'm planning on starting extended drains on my 2002 Grand Am GT with GM's 3.4L engine. The reason I want to do extended drains is because I started a new job that is 50 miles away all highway against traffic and an average of 625 total miles each week. I would say I average 75mph but go as fast as 90mph for periods on the drive to/from work. The drive is in the Toronto area.

My goal is to do oil changes as little as possible and I am thinking in the neighbourhood of 7500 to 10,000 miles which would work out to about 3 to 4 months. The first OCI will probably be shorter (in the range of 5000 or 6000 miles).

The main oils I'm considering are GC and M1 5W30 since they are locally available and not that expensive (compared to Amsoil, Redline, etc). I have also considered a HDEO, but the only one that I think I have seen regularly is Rotella dino as well as the Rotella Synth (I've never seen Delo and have only seen Delvac 1300 once, never Delvac 1).

I know about the potential coolant leaks with this engine which was actually already repaired a few months ago. I know I will get some people thinking don't do an extended drain because of this, but I already decided I don't want to change the oil every month.

Maybe I should make a separate post in the filter forum, but lets see if I get any responses here. My choices here are not that great (as far as I know). I could get Frams very easily and relatively cheap as well as Napa filters (the silvers are similar price to the Frams while the gold is about double if I remember correctly). I could also go to a dealer to get some AC Delcos. The original filter is the tiny AC47 and I beleive that the AC52 is the correct oversized filter. What are your thoughts on this?

offtopic.gif
I put in some GC into our Olds minivan with the same 3.4L engine yesterday and it might be running a little quieter, but that may be just me. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we also had the trany fluid and filter changed yesterday so I don't think I could really use that vehicle as a great indicator of how the GC runs in the GM 3.4 compared to the dino oils being used previously.
 
Either motor oil would do a fine job for you. Most folks on here would tell you to avoid the Fram Orange Death filter.

If I were you I would not worry about either the oil or the filer - driving at the speeds you indicate you will be dead before the first oil change.
 
Either oil is fine, a good pao will work for long intervals as long as the coolant leak is taken care of.

Use the large ac filter if it works for your budget.

I would personally use anything except a fram.

Dan
 
I think that GC might work better for extended drains compared to M1 5W-30. GC seems to be specifically designed for cars which can go high OCI - anywhere from 10k to 25k miles. In Mobil's case I would choose M1 10W-30 over 5W-30 for extended drain, but that's just me. Considering Canada's climate GC might work better than any grade of M1. In that case you don't have to worry about summer or winter grades/brands and just use GC. I think that GC would be able to hold without any problems for 10k miles in conditions you described.

Regards,
 
I was leaning towards GC because of it's A3 rating which I figured kind of shows it is able to uphold long intervals. I've read all of the Fram bashing and would stay away from it if there were other easily accessible quality filters at reasonable prices in the area. I'll be keeping my eyes open and I think I'm going to look into pricing for the AC Delco.

quote:
Originally posted by Ugly3:
If I were you I would not worry about either the oil or the filer - driving at the speeds you indicate you will be dead before the first oil change.
Click to expand...
I understand your concern about safety and I do believe I am a good driver (I know this doesn't mean much since probably everyone would say this about themselves). At my last job, I was taking a rather busy highway (the 401)where traffic travelled between 50 and 60 mph with the occasional goofball going 90mph, and I drove between 50 and 60 mph. I am now taking highway 400 which is 6 lanes in the city and 3 lanes outside of the city and I would say the average speed is about 75 or 80 mph with occasional vehicles travelling upto 100mph. I feel safe at the speeds that I drive (obviously only doing them when weather permits) because the highway is sparsly occupied with the vast majority of drivers signaling properly, driving in the right lane except to pass, and no real tailgating.
 
Haha, that guy has never driven in Toronto.

I live south of toronto, and when I go up there the average speed is 85mph, and people in the right lanes are doing 75-80mph. The left lane, people are doing 90-95mph all day long.

As for your grand prix, I recommend 0w30 german castrol and any good filter, not fram. Grab a purolator, we can get one of those at any parts store here in NY.
 
quote:
Originally posted by john_ertw:
I'm planning on starting extended drains on my 2002 Grand Am GT with GM's 3.4L engine. The reason I want to do extended drains is because I started a new job that is 50 miles away all highway against traffic and an average of 625 total miles each week.
Click to expand...
Not to hijack the topic, but, instead of extending drains, wouldn't it be better to get a much more fuel efficient car first?
Gas is back up to 90cents/litre where I am.
 
quote:
Originally posted by berge:
Not to hijack the topic, but, instead of extending drains, wouldn't it be better to get a much more fuel efficient car first?
Gas is back up to 90cents/litre where I am.
Click to expand...
A new car would be great, but unlikely for at least several months (and probably not until next summer when I turn 25 and insurance will drop to a reasonable level - this is my parents car). But to be honest, this car is not bad at all on the highway. I get about 8-8.5L/100km which is comparable to cars of the same size (even import 4 bangers). When it comes to city driving, it does drink gas compared to smaller 4 cylinder engines. Also the reason of extending drains is not only to do with saving money. It's also time and why use more oil than necessary (I know I'd use less with a smaller car, but...).
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K:
I would think he would get a big gain in fuel efficiency by just slowing from 150 kph to 100 kph.

Gene
Click to expand...
true, but, easier said than done. besides, he's averaging 120.

I think M1 would be fine for 16000km's for your driving.

[ August 15, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: berge ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K:
I would think he would get a big gain in fuel efficiency by just slowing from 150 kph to 100 kph.

Gene
Click to expand...
I would gain about 1 or 1.5 L/100km by decreasing my speed from my average of 120km/h (with some driving up to 140km/h) down to 100km/h. But then again, I'd be the guy who is slowing traffic down and I'm not too concerned with my milage.

Mainly I was interested to see which oil(s) would be best for my application allowing me to go a few months between OCIs. It seems that both GC and M1 would allow me to go the milage I want (based on opinions). They are both comparably priced (within $1/litre) and both readily accessible (although M1 would be the easier of the two to find).

I think I'm going to start with GC for a few OCIs. If I ever get a chance to pick up some Esso XD-3 0W30, I will give that a shot (it is a full PAO costing only ~$4CDN/litre, but I only know of 1 location that carries it and they are only open during the week until 3pm). I don't see myself doing any UOAs yet, but who knows... this board already got me to switch to a synth.
 
Hasn't Mobil 1 shown better TBN tetention over longer drains compared to GC? I'd go with Mobil 1 on this one. In all honesty however, you could probably go with a good ol dino at 5,000 - 6,000 mile drains with all your highway driving.
 
quote:
Originally posted by berge:

quote:
Originally posted by john_ertw:
I'm planning on starting extended drains on my 2002 Grand Am GT with GM's 3.4L engine. The reason I want to do extended drains is because I started a new job that is 50 miles away all highway against traffic and an average of 625 total miles each week.
Click to expand...
Not to hijack the topic, but, instead of extending drains, wouldn't it be better to get a much more fuel efficient car first?
Gas is back up to 90cents/litre where I am.
Click to expand...
You need to visit this site then:

www.torontogasprices.com

If you check it religiously, you'll find gas much cheaper than 90 cents per liter in the Toronto area! It's been under 70 cents per liter in Mississauga for almost two months now (except this weekend it only got down to the 72-75 range, which still isn't bad considering how high the price of crude oil is!)
 
john_ertw - I understand your concern about safety and I do believe I am a good driver (I know this doesn't mean much since probably everyone would say this about themselves). At my last job, I was taking a rather busy highway (the 401)where traffic travelled between 50 and 60 mph with the occasional goofball going 90mph, and I drove between 50 and 60 mph. I am now taking highway 400 which is 6 lanes in the city and 3 lanes outside of the city and I would say the average speed is about 75 or 80 mph with occasional vehicles travelling upto 100mph. I feel safe at the speeds that I drive (obviously only doing them when weather permits) because the highway is sparsly occupied with the vast majority of drivers signaling properly, driving in the right lane except to pass, and no real tailgating.

Years ago when I was young and dumb I was going from Winsor to Toronto (maybe 401 or 405, someting like that) and running 111 MPH, that was the top speed the vacuum cruise control would hold.

Looking in the rear view mirror I see a semi coming up on me "fast" - I look again, yep it is a semi. The truck passes me rather briskly.

I use the CB radio and ask the driver what speed he is doing, he says 138 MPH.

Some other guys comes on the CB and says "There are old drivers and there are bold drivers but there are no old bold drivers". Think about it.
 
John,I used to commute 96 mile round trip in a 1988 Toyota 4cyl stick shift, I used Redline,M1, Amsoil S2000, Delo 400 Amsoil HD marine and diesel 15w/40. I noticed no change in Gas mileage in oil brands or weights and the oil analysis' were all good. That being,I would use any of your listed oils, M1 in 10w/30 It is a syn and could you not get by with a syn 10w/30? You may have less oil consumption .Use a good filter and make sure your engine and drive line are seviced and tuned with equal thought.
 
Either oil should be good for 10 or 12K easily under those conditions. With a few UOA's you could find a good OCI that might let you run six months or longer.
 
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