What's the appropriate price for a Group III oil?
We know $4 a quart is too much.
We know $4 a quart is too much.
What's an appropriate price
- Thread starter GROUCHO MARX
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I would say $2.75 to $3.25 based on what Mobil 1 sells for at $4.00-$5.00. Dino juice, Castrol GTX, Pennzoil PureBase, Havoline go for $1.50-$1.90 if not discounted. Chevron Supreme is the exception at $1.25 most of the time.
Well Harper, in the Oak Room at the Plaza Hotel in NYC a bottle of Bud is $9.
Different markets, different prices.
Different markets, different prices.
Wal-mart sells the excellent Rotella T Syn for $12.88/4 quarts, in most US markets. I think that's a good price
I was not trying to be smart, it depends what a consumer is willing to spend. There are many blends out there for over $2.00/QT almost $3.00/QT. People here know they have little synthetic in them but people don't and are willing to spend some more $$$ for the product even though its not really worth it. The local Mobil mart sells Mobil 1 for over $6 a quart.
IMHO, about 2.50 a quart, is about right, for what you are getting. The supertech stuff is the closest that I have found to that price, but is still overpriced.
I like "what the market will bear" criteria best (the $9 bud occurs because of the type of clientile that exists at the hotel. It's a segmented market where the customers are willing to pay it).
A lot of people think group III's should be priced much lower because of cost, but that is only half the story. Demand has something to do with it as well. Plus, I'm not big on the theory that "I must be getting ripped off if I pay $4 for group III because it's cheaper to make." To me, it's all about performance. If UofA's show me a group III does just as well, I can care less how much the manufacturer spent making it. If they can reduce their cost while maintaining performance, more power to them. They deserve the extra profits.
A lot of people think group III's should be priced much lower because of cost, but that is only half the story. Demand has something to do with it as well. Plus, I'm not big on the theory that "I must be getting ripped off if I pay $4 for group III because it's cheaper to make." To me, it's all about performance. If UofA's show me a group III does just as well, I can care less how much the manufacturer spent making it. If they can reduce their cost while maintaining performance, more power to them. They deserve the extra profits.
VEEDUB,
Have we seen a UOA where a group III outperfrmed a group IV or V?
I would be interesested. I think it's critical to the topic as costs should have little to do with price.
Have we seen a UOA where a group III outperfrmed a group IV or V?
I would be interesested. I think it's critical to the topic as costs should have little to do with price.
My question is, how expensive is it to create a finished oil with a Group III base? It seems to me that most board participants assume it is as cheap to produce an oil based on Group III as it is to produce one based on Group IV and V. On the surface it would seem a logical conclusion, but when you factor in the additive package, and the total process, is it?
pscholte.....you may have a point.....but many of the costs will be the same. For instance, pennzoil 5w30, uses a GII+ base and sells for 1.60 a quart. The cost to produce, is probably only about 60-70 cents to produce the final product, and the rest is bottling, distribution, marketing, and dealer markup. Even if the cost of an end product GIII oil was double that, it still doesn't justify the cost of the GIII synthetics at the store, as none of the other costs associated would change.
[ October 04, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
[ October 04, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
Groucho,
Can't speak for other engines, but for VW 1.8T engines, the two analyses of Synpower 5w-40 have been better than(or just as good as) just about every Mobil 1 0w-40 (and many 5w-30) analyses I've seen on the same engine. When you consider that this is a small sump (3.9 quarts for the audi version and 4.6 for the Jetta version), turbocharged engine, it is the one area where one might expect the PAO to really shine. Not only that, the two Synpower intervals were both in winter, freezing conditions, which are particularly hard on oils. Having said that, I recognize that we need to see more synpower analyses and establish a trend before drawing definite conclusions. But so far, there is no reason to believe that the synpower is inferior. It's 2 for 2.
Pscholte, great question on the cost. If you are correct, then manufacturers would have to tradeoff additives for base oil or vice versa. Not sure which is the better route to go if it is true.
Can't speak for other engines, but for VW 1.8T engines, the two analyses of Synpower 5w-40 have been better than(or just as good as) just about every Mobil 1 0w-40 (and many 5w-30) analyses I've seen on the same engine. When you consider that this is a small sump (3.9 quarts for the audi version and 4.6 for the Jetta version), turbocharged engine, it is the one area where one might expect the PAO to really shine. Not only that, the two Synpower intervals were both in winter, freezing conditions, which are particularly hard on oils. Having said that, I recognize that we need to see more synpower analyses and establish a trend before drawing definite conclusions. But so far, there is no reason to believe that the synpower is inferior. It's 2 for 2.
Pscholte, great question on the cost. If you are correct, then manufacturers would have to tradeoff additives for base oil or vice versa. Not sure which is the better route to go if it is true.
If you use Amsoils XL-7500 oil as a guide to cost difference between group III and group IV then the cost is about 35 cents per quart at retail. This is about what Amsoil lowered its price by when it switched from PAO to group III a year ago July on its XL line of oils.
Someone correct me if I am wrong as I am going by memory.
I would say that the before and after change produced comparable oils for the 7500 to 10000 mile oil change interval.
Someone correct me if I am wrong as I am going by memory.
I would say that the before and after change produced comparable oils for the 7500 to 10000 mile oil change interval.
I pay close to this or even well over this for a DINO. Yes, sirs I do... It all depends on HOW MUCH VALUE you get in return. IT's ALL ROI. Period.
"nuff said!
Robbie,
You can get M1 for $4 a quart. You can get Pennzoil dino for $1.70 a quart. Why do you want to pay more?
You can get M1 for $4 a quart. You can get Pennzoil dino for $1.70 a quart. Why do you want to pay more?
Robbie, I have read your posts about whatever "wonder oil" that you are using, but even after questions about it, you still haven't stated what it is. Is there a reason you are keeping it such a secret?
Well I didn't mean to imply it was a "wonder-oil", but it is very good. And as you may be aware, I always seem to say as long as its a good quality oil you can use it. IMHO, no one needs to use any special oil or any special anything, just flush once and awhile and change often to keep clean.
As far as why I don't say, several reasons, one is that I just started selling it, and I no site supporter...
there are more reasons, but I'm sure most of you have some kind on opinion already if you looked at my testing results and "Driving conditions"...
The one right now is a CF/SJ, I do have some newer specs but I still have a lot of the oil from a long time ago I'm getting to... Often times I mix or I Fill with one and top with another, sometimes mixing three buckets in one when they start getting down too low, or pouring in my quart bottles. So also you are not getting a true representation of ONE OIL... like I said there are several reasons, But I think that it does okay.
I don't. I pay less for it per mile when you factor all the factors in with the cost of the oil. (i.e. clean clean engine, better MPG, good tab tests, etc.)
I haven't seen that price in WallyWorld for over a yearquote:
Originally posted by quadrun1:
Wal-mart sells the excellent Rotella T Syn for $12.88/4 quarts, in most US markets. I think that's a good price
Also as far as Group III-I think other than cold weather performance-it really can't go extended drain intervals as well as a PAO.
Actually we seem to have very little real knowledge about Group III motor oils at this web site, because most people here seem to be dead set against them. If a Group III motor oil was available at a good price (say $2.00-$3.00 a quart), flowed about as well in the cold as a full synthetic, performed about as well as a full synthetic, I would be interested. There can be problems with ester-based and PAO-bases synthetic oils. Esters can attract water and PAOs can cause seal shrinkage. Although I guess these problems can be prevented with some conventional motor oil in the mix or conventional motor oil and/or ester in the PAO.
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