What would you use?

JHZR2

Staff member
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45,628
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New Jersey
Hi, I have three applications, for which Ill state the reccomended oil for my climate, and driving behavior. Economy (both fuel and spending on oil) are important. Both dino and synth oils are in consideration, mainly what is available at Wal-mart. Schaefer's oil reccomendations would be nice too. Also, a general idea of drain intervals for this oil/driving behavior combo would be great. Car 1: gas engine, 15w-40 or 15w-50 short trips, just a few miles, usually the car just barely gets up to full coolant temp before shutting down. Car 2: diesel engine, 15w-40 Long trips only, in excess of 30 miles, with most 100+ before shutting down engine. Car 3: gas engine, 5w-30 Moderate trips, usually 15-50 mi. Limited use, 1-2 times/week max. Never sits for more than a week, but mostly only gets driven once a week. Very low milage per year. Thanks for your help, any advice is appreciated. JMH [ February 04, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
 
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6,388
Location
Washington St.
#1--Schaeffer's #700 15W-40. Change at the owner's manual severe service schedule. #2--ditto. Change at the normal drain interval unless you do an oil test...then you'll probably know that the oil is good for a longer drain interval. #3--Good, cheap oil...Pennz, Chevron, Mobil, annual oil changes. (Schaeffer's #701 5W-30 is really good stuff, but costs more--in this car you probably won't see the benefit.)
 
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16,669
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Silicon Valley
#1 Any SL 5W40 or 5W30, change on servere service schedule. Use 5W for startup protection. #2 Delvac 1 with long drain interval #3 Any SL dino with 5k interval.
 
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951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
Hi JMH, I've got a car in the same situation as your #1. I'm currently running Mobil 1 15W-50 in it (for 10k miles, which should be about 2 yrs), but if I had it to do over I'd use Delvac 1 5W-40 for the better acid neutralization, detergency & low-temp flow (but I haven't had any starting problems down to 15*F so far). Since vehicle #2's a diesel, I'd use Delvac 1 in it, also. With two vehicles using the same oil, it pays to order it from a site sponsor for substantially less than getting it from a truck stop. #3 sounds OK as-is. But, if it were my car, I'd probably switch to Mobil 1 0W-30. My preference is for using sythetic for as long as possible, & since I haven't run any analyses on my cars yet, that means 10k miles for me.
 
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352
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Ontario, Canada.
For your vehicle 1 & 2 I'd opt for a synthetic 5w-40 offering, either the Mobil 1 Delvac 1 or possibly Shell's Rotella T. Synthetics are better for short trips and offer extended drain intervals which could afford you yearly changes for these 2 vehicles. It may also be more economical on occasion to purchase this oil in bulk. For the third vehicle you may get away with using the same 5w-40, although it probably doesn't have the "energy conserving" qualification suggested by your manual for that application. It won't hurt it mind you, but will contribute to a diminished catalytic converter function. Other than that I'd use a good quality 5w-30 synthetic equivalent. I don't have convenient access to Shaeffer's products at my location, but from what I've read would certainly use any of their "Supreme 7000" blend products suggested for your applications. For a nominal amount more you could opt for Redline synthetic oil products. They boast the best quality synthetic base stocks available and one of the longest drain intervals as well. [ February 05, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: 7tford ]
 
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Location
Singapore
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2: Car 1: gas engine, 15w-40 or 15w-50 short trips, just a few miles, usually the car just barely gets up to full coolant temp before shutting down.
Wouldnt a thinner viscosity like a 30wt be better for a car doing short trips?
 

Patman

Staff member
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21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Ken4:
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2: Car 1: gas engine, 15w-40 or 15w-50 short trips, just a few miles, usually the car just barely gets up to full coolant temp before shutting down.
Wouldnt a thinner viscosity like a 30wt be better for a car doing short trips?

Definitely! Remember what I mentioned last week, that for very short trips in winter, 5w20 might be better, especially if the oil never reaches full temperature.
 
Messages
951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:
quote:
Originally posted by Ken4:
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2: Car 1: gas engine, 15w-40 or 15w-50 short trips, just a few miles, usually the car just barely gets up to full coolant temp before shutting down.
Wouldnt a thinner viscosity like a 30wt be better for a car doing short trips?

Definitely! Remember what I mentioned last week, that for very short trips in winter, 5w20 might be better, especially if the oil never reaches full temperature.

Sorry guys, but I disagree on this point. If it's short-trip protection you're worryiing about, then look at the other end of the range. Any 0W or 5W syn will provide all the short, cold protection you'll ever need. As it warms up, any oil's going to get thinner than what it is cold, regardless of it's hot visc. Limiting the hot end to a 20wt will only insure that you'll never have more than watery hot oil. I've been digging into specs & manufacturer recommendations a lot lately, & I'm currently convinced that a full syn, ACEA A3 rated oil offers the best cold, short trip protection and the best hot, heavy load protection. This new GM-LL "vapor"-spec is a perfect example of what I mean. The only referenced benefits to this spec are "long drain" & "fuel economy." (Note that "engine protection" is not a listed benefit.) Out of the 12 full syn oils currently approved, all but one of them are 0W-30s. (The last is GF-3 M1 0W-40.) Makes sense, right? Full syn for long drain, 0W-30 for fuel economy. However, since they're all European formulations, more than half of them are also ACEA A3 rated. Why bother meeting A3 when it's obviously easier to meet A1 or A5? Because it protects better. Are there any xW-20s which are also A3 rated? (I honestly don't know.) The other concerns for short trips are acid mitigation & sludge resistance. I think diesel-specific oils handle these conditions better than gasoline-specific oils. So, considering all of these factors, my opinion (like you couldn't tell already?), is that a full syn 5W-40 diesel oil will offer all-around improvements over any xW-20/30 gasoline oil.
 

Patman

Staff member
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21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
But with a 5w20 oil and short trips, it will never see the full 100c operating temp where it's at a thinner point, so it might only see 60 or 70c, and would be closer to probably 15-20cst or thicker. If someone were to use a 5w30 or 10w30 during this short trip operation, and only get up to 60 or 70c, the oil might be at 30-40cst or thicker. (these are all just random numbers off the top of my head, but not too far off probably) So you see my point? With the thinner 5w20 oil starting out so much thinner (look at it's viscosity at 40c compared to 5w30s) it will be more suitable to short drives where the oil never heats up. I believe during warmup operation the engine wears a lot more because of the fact that the oil is so thick.
 
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951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
Patman, Yes, I understand. It's just that, so far, your arguments haven't convinced me. [Smile] I understand why you feel this way, & I even agree with a certain amount of the logic behind it. But like I said, I've been doing a lot of digging into specs & requirements lately, & all the info points to other factors as being more important for wear protection than simply how fast the oil gets to a certain viscosity. (Didn't we recently have some threads which explained that any oil will be much thinner at 40*C than at 0*C, regardless of where its viscosity range starts & ends?) Here's what I think would be the perfect short trip oil (well, what I think right now, anyway): 1) Full syn (PAO) 2) ACEA A3/B3 3) 0W-20 4) Diesel formulation This would hold up, protect, start thin (& get thinner), & keep things stablized & clean. Is it even possible to build such an oil? I don't know. [I dont know] But until someone does, I still feel there are more important factors to consider than just how quickly it thins out before it gets up to full operating temp.
 
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6,388
Location
Washington St.
Greg, Amsoil 5W-30 Series 3000 HDD diesel/gasoline oil comes close to meeting the requirements on your list...at quite a cost! (When I said, "meet the requirements," I should have writen, "Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications.") Ken
 
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