What to do with my Honda....

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Originally Posted By: meep

I enjoyed the comment a few posts back about the older cars. in my '57, you had to manually adjust the brakes IN EACH WHEEL every 1000 miles. ker-click, ker-click, ker-click. times 4. Chassis lube every 2000 IIRC. I don't remember the factory OC.... but it was a SB chevy-- so it got one every 3k.

M


Yeah not many even know what one of these is... I think it was last used to open a can of paint, but have used it to adj tie rod sleeves as well...

BTW before someone asks, pict was shot on the hood of my granddaughter's battery Corvette...

brakespoon.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Darn edit time...

I am going to use carb cleaner and some seafoam to clean out the channels behind the breather box, the lines, and the box itself. Then do a seafoam treatment in the oil, then change out the 0w30 for the 5w30 Maxlife I have on the shelf.

That will basically rule out any PCV problems causing consumption


Inspect the replacement valve you put on to see if it got gummed up or not while you are at it.

My 92 D15Z1 uses about 1 quart every 3,000 miles currently, it had a gummy PCV valve at the breather chamber. I'm going to actually remove the box itself during my soon upcoming oil change, since the oil filter will come off allowing easier access. I believe there are two o-rings, IIRC, that should probably be replaced while you have the old chamber off.

Then, before your next oil change, you could try adding something like MMO to the crankcase it order to have the solvent evacuate via the PCV system as it 'burns' off...but only nearing the end of the OCI since just adding it would be a waste at the consumption rate currently, while it may be altogether anyway.

I like the idea of MaxLife 5w-30. Stick with that for at least a years worth of time regardless of mileage. See if consumption changes at all. I'm also a fan of the LubroMoly Oil Saver + MoS2 combo, by the way.

You could add a mixture of that will more MaxLife on the side for top-up over time as the miles go by and it's time to add more.
 
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Here are some shots of what it looks like through the filler hole
http://imageshack.us/g/17/2011072118555989.jpg/


It doesn't look too bad for a 200k Honda, but it was likely neglected for a handful of OCI's

I have a stash of m1/castrol/PU SM synthetic that I got a 4 dollars a quart on clearance, and I feel like I am wasting my money putting it in there, I'm thinking about taking the oil back and just going for the what ever is cheapest route.


If nobody's commented about the pictures yet, I think the valvetrain looks pretty dadgum good for 200k miles, unless I'm missing something.

I like your thinking of returning your entire stash, if you can, and running something else. My preference would be Pennzoil High Mileage (gold bottle) or Valvoline Maxlife (red bottle). Oil won't be a cure-in-a-bottle for you, but either of these will do the best that any oil could at slowing your consumption.

I do agree with others: 1 qt/1,000 miles isn't bad. That's the tolerance of most new engines, as a matter of fact; unless it burns more than 1 qt/1,000 miles, the dealer won't investigate it as that is considered within the allowable consumption range.
 
Jim, since we have nearly the same engine, would you recommend I try to get at the breather box from under the car or should I take off the intake manifold to get to it?

And I do have a bottle of Mos2 in with the 0w30 right now.

I'm going to go outside and pull the PCV valve to see if it is gummed again.
 
I checked my PCV valve again, it had oil on it, and I took off the throttle body, and this is what I found.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/1003111342.jpg/

The port that connects to the PCV valve has a steady stream of oil in it, it was pooling a little in the bottom of the intake manifold, but some antifreeze dripped in there from the IACV hoses, so I carb cleaned it before I took the picture, but you can still see the oil peaking out of the PCV valve hose into the intake.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/1003111344.jpg/

In this one you can see the little steady streams of oil that are being sucked into each runner. After I took the pics I cleaned out the rest of the stains so now I will be monitoring how fast they return, this could easily where I am losing a quart every 1k. Also the higher the RPM's I do the more pressure is built up and more oil is sucked through that tube into my intake explaining why it increases consumption the more I bring it to red line.


Next weekend I will be taking off the intake manifold and cleaning out the PCV system entirely, wish me luck! Hopefully this solves most of my consumption problem.
 
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I guess I don't know what an acceptable engine looks like with this mileage, none of my cars have ever made it this high with out being on a full synthetic diet with regular flushes so I saw some varnish and deposits and got worried.


Do I have to change the oil if I get a little carb cleaner in it on accident when I am cleaning the breather box?? or will it burn off?
 
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If it's 'residual' I wouldn't worry about it. How long has the current OCI been going? If it's old you could change it now. Otherwise, unless you just go through more thank half a can on the block and it doesn't 'drain back out', maybe cut the interval either way, but still you are able to top off enough to not worry about solvent bringing down the viscosity. That's the primary concern, IMO, and the rest will be 'cycled' via the IM since it's Positive crankcase away from the block.

I would just pull the breather chamber from underneath the car. Make sure to go ahead and replace the o-rings(only 2 bolts hold the breather on, maybe a wiring bracket/harness as well). Spray the hoses from the chamber to the IM with cleaner and let them air dry as well. Then, spray the ports off the block from where the chamber box mounts, now removed. As you mentioned regarding the concern from the cleaning process.

Take pictures of the block if you can with the oil filter and breather removed, the ports pre-cleaning.

Also, of course the breather chamber, you may have to soak it in parts cleaner or a good solvent(if no rubber components internally?)...Get a can of B-12 and soak it for a day or two if its caked internally. Then spray it out with Carb cleaner.

Check the grommets for the elbow/PCV valve seats for cracks, any question just replace them. I prefer Beck/Arnley brand if I can't get dealer part for the Civic's. On most things anyway unless it's aftermarket for power/looks etc.

Will have to get back on the pics later. I soaked the top-end with Amsoil's Power Foam on the Z1 a couple of times now, pre-replacement of the expensive 02 LAF sensor for this lean-burn app.

Did you piston soak your the car yet? If it's 'within' your budget easily it could at least be a learnig experience even more so.
 
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I am only like 2k miles into this oil change so idk if it is worth dumping before winter, but I may have to...

I have done a MMO piston soak before the last oil change, it left a noticeable amount of carbon on the Styrofoam I put behind it when I revved it up.

I do not have a cement floor or the proper jack to lift my car high enough to fit my jack stands under it, so I am going to have to pull off the intake manifold and go that route from the top. I was also at the dealership, got some diagrams so I know where the bolts are exactly, and ordered the gaskets necessary to tear it down to that, but the parts department did not have an option to order the o ring on the breather box, so I will have to re use it.
 
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Before I tear it all the way down, Is there anything I can spray in there to clean it out with out having to tear down? Or is the only option a tear down?
 
Sorry, I don't follow why you're so keen to tear everything apart.

Can't you check the PCV functionality by simply detaching the PCV valve and blow into the line?
 
Assuming it has hardening of the valve stem seals, a high mileage oil may help eventually(but I've never seen a improvement when used in a 4.6 Ford after they've hardened), only sure fix is replacement...

If the valve cover(or wherever the PCV draws from) has a screen that's clogged, the system will not be able to keep the crankcase evacuated, this can lead to oil consumption... Assuming the port the PCV draws from is mostly vertical, I'd pour some oil in it, if it's plugged the oil will just set in the opening... Flow will likely be slow but oil should be able to enter the engine...
 
Originally Posted By: Brenden
I am going to see if I have the tools in my Honda to remove the intake manifold and get to the breather box and clean it up today, it may be caked full of the same stuff that plugged my PCV valve.

I may wait until next week when I get home to do a proper tear down and cleaning of the PCV valve hoses and breather box.


You could easily do more harm than good by taking this stuff apart. I would just check the hoses attached to the pcv and make sure they are clean.

Monitor the oil use with the new pcv for a while before taking anything apart. Keep checking the pcv valve and unplug it if it plugs again. You may have already significantly reduced the oil consumption. If the pcv continues to plug you may have to take more stuff apart.

Also, oil use can be tricky to nail down. Make sure you check the oil under the same conditions each time. I like to check oil in the morning before I start the car so the oil has had plenty of time to drain back into the pan.
 
^Removing the IM may be a bit premature, but I don't see any harm in removing what is essentially a factory catch can of sorts.
 
You can also check the function of the PCV valve by pinching the hose shut with pliers to cut off the vacuum from the engine (with the engine idling) and you will hear a "click" from the valve if it is working properly.

Originally Posted By: Brenden
I checked my PCV valve again, it had oil on it, and I took off the throttle body, and this is what I found.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/1003111342.jpg/

The port that connects to the PCV valve has a steady stream of oil in it, it was pooling a little in the bottom of the intake manifold, but some antifreeze dripped in there from the IACV hoses, so I carb cleaned it before I took the picture, but you can still see the oil peaking out of the PCV valve hose into the intake.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/1003111344.jpg/

In this one you can see the little steady streams of oil that are being sucked into each runner. After I took the pics I cleaned out the rest of the stains so now I will be monitoring how fast they return, this could easily where I am losing a quart every 1k. Also the higher the RPM's I do the more pressure is built up and more oil is sucked through that tube into my intake explaining why it increases consumption the more I bring it to red line.


Next weekend I will be taking off the intake manifold and cleaning out the PCV system entirely, wish me luck! Hopefully this solves most of my consumption problem.
 
If your Civic is anything like the early '90s ones I had, you likely have some ring wear-I would do a compression test before tearing it apart. Blowby is likely the cause of your oily PCV system.
 
If you can run it with the PCV valve hanging in mid air(must remain connected to it's vacuum source or the line plugged) and the oil filler cap removed, if it has excessive blowby they'll be a noticeable amount of vapor emitted from the oil filler... This test is performed with the engine fully warmed, rarely is blowby a issue on a cold engine(if so you have a bad blowby problem)...

Note some engines will sling oil with the engine running and the filler cap removed, may want to have someone start it while you watch to see if that is the case...
 
I topped it off with about 1/4 a quart of some m1 5w20 I got on sale today before my 130 mile trip at 75mph and 3.5krpm, it burnt all of it off... must be the rings, because lighter oil makes the consumption worse... next test is some 40wt

Could un-adjusted valves in 50k+ miles cause any extra blow by/consumption?
 
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