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quote:Why on Earth would you pour perfectly good alcohol down the drain? And, methanol is no more dangerous than the denatured alcohol that is sold at hardware/home improvement stores. I have 2 gallons of denatured alcohol at the house now that I use for various things, and I'm not the least bit worried about it just "sitting around".
Originally posted by Willy_G: Cut the iso 50% with water & pour it down the drain. And run water down the drain for about 5 minutes. Take the methanol to a poison/chemical collector depot for disposal. Methanol is some nasty stuff I wouldn't want sitting around my place.
quote:So basically enough methanol to fill a shot glass could be enough to kill 250 lb man.
The minimum lethal dose of methanol in the absence of medical treatment is between 0.3 and 1 g/kg. The minimum dose causing permanent visual defects is unknown.
![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
quote:Most people don't realize exactly how much methanol is in your common hardware store denatured alcohol. The following write-up was taken from a website for people that run small scale steam trains that use alcohol as fuel. ------------------------------------------------- "There are as many “formulas” for denatured alcohol as there are manufacturers who provide it to consumers. Periodically (here in the States anyway) the long arm of the law reaches out to the producers of denatured alcohol and requires them to alter their proprietary formulas. When I first discovered the small-scale live steam locomotive hobby (1995) the denatured alcohol that I first used was Kleen-Strip’s version called S-L-X. It was then, as now, available by the quart and gallon can in the paint department of Home Depot stores throughout the States at about US$8.00 and change per gallon. In 1995 S-L-X was made up of nearly equal parts of both ethyl and methyl alcohol with less than 1% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIK) added to keep the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) branch of the Department of the Treasury happy. A couple of years ago (1998?) the ATF “asked” Kleen-Strip to alter their proprietary formula. The result is that now S-L-X is composed of 80% methanol, less than 20% ethanol, and MIK not to exceed 3%. The other big producer of denatured alcohol in the states is Parks Corporation. Parks markets denatured alcohol under their own name, and they manufacture it for resale under “house brands” for other retailers. One such retailer is True Value Hardware. I was not able to obtain the proportions of ethyl to methyl alcohol that Parks uses in their denatured products, but since the ATF is involved is probably safe to assume that the ratio is very close to the Kleen-Strip formula. However, there is a heck of a difference in the additives that Parks inserts into their baseline denatured alcohol product. First they start off with MIK, as does Kleen-Strip, but then they add Rubber Solvent (I am unable to identify just what that is) and less than 1% each of both Toluol and Benzene. I am not a “tree hugger” and I do not have a problem with additives to products to improve their value or properties, but I do have a problem if these additives “seem” to affect the operation of our small scale live steamers; more on this subject in a later section . ------------------------------------------------ As you can see more than 3/4 of that particular brand of DA is methanol. Common sense while using alcohols/solvents will keep you and your family safe.
Originally posted by y_p_w: Many denatured alcohols are merely spiked with a bittering agent. Something like the SD alcohol 40 (common in household products) isn't all that toxic compared to 100% ethanol. The NIH doesn't consider SD-40 any more toxic than straight ethanol.
quote:I'm thinking of alcohol as in household personal products. Manufacturers would be insane to use methanol in spray sunscreens or mouthwash - it would simply be too toxic. They just use a slight bittering agent to make it undesirable to drink the stuff.
Originally posted by TomH:quote:Most people don't realize exactly how much methanol is in your common hardware store denatured alcohol. The following write-up was taken from a website for people that run small scale steam trains that use alcohol as fuel. ------------------------------------------------- "There are as many “formulas” for denatured alcohol as there are manufacturers who provide it to consumers. Periodically (here in the States anyway) the long arm of the law reaches out to the producers of denatured alcohol and requires them to alter their proprietary formulas. When I first discovered the small-scale live steam locomotive hobby (1995) the denatured alcohol that I first used was Kleen-Strip’s version called S-L-X. It was then, as now, available by the quart and gallon can in the paint department of Home Depot stores throughout the States at about US$8.00 and change per gallon. In 1995 S-L-X was made up of nearly equal parts of both ethyl and methyl alcohol with less than 1% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIK) added to keep the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) branch of the Department of the Treasury happy. A couple of years ago (1998?) the ATF “asked” Kleen-Strip to alter their proprietary formula. The result is that now S-L-X is composed of 80% methanol, less than 20% ethanol, and MIK not to exceed 3%. The other big producer of denatured alcohol in the states is Parks Corporation. Parks markets denatured alcohol under their own name, and they manufacture it for resale under “house brands” for other retailers. One such retailer is True Value Hardware. I was not able to obtain the proportions of ethyl to methyl alcohol that Parks uses in their denatured products, but since the ATF is involved is probably safe to assume that the ratio is very close to the Kleen-Strip formula. However, there is a heck of a difference in the additives that Parks inserts into their baseline denatured alcohol product. First they start off with MIK, as does Kleen-Strip, but then they add Rubber Solvent (I am unable to identify just what that is) and less than 1% each of both Toluol and Benzene. I am not a “tree hugger” and I do not have a problem with additives to products to improve their value or properties, but I do have a problem if these additives “seem” to affect the operation of our small scale live steamers; more on this subject in a later section . ------------------------------------------------ As you can see more than 3/4 of that particular brand of DA is methanol. Common sense while using alcohols/solvents will keep you and your family safe.
Originally posted by y_p_w: Many denatured alcohols are merely spiked with a bittering agent. Something like the SD alcohol 40 (common in household products) isn't all that toxic compared to 100% ethanol. The NIH doesn't consider SD-40 any more toxic than straight ethanol.
quote:I am aware of the alcohols you are speaking of. They are commonly referred to as SD (specially denatured) alcohols. However, these types of alcohols aren't generally available to the average consumer like the hardware store denatured alcohols are, which is why I didn't make mention of them in my earlier posts. ANY alcohol will kill/harm a person if ingested in sufficient quantities. My point was that, if handled properly, methanol is no more of a threat to your health than any other type of alcohol, and it can be pretty useful stuff if you know what to do with it.
Originally posted by y_p_w: I'm thinking of alcohol as in household personal products. Manufacturers would be insane to use methanol in spray sunscreens or mouthwash - it would simply be too toxic. They just use a slight bittering agent to make it undesirable to drink the stuff.
quote:My only problem with methanol is that tiny quantities can be lethal or permanently damaging. I use isopropryl rubbing alcohol to clean the skin. If I spilled methanol on my skin, I'd wash it off immediately. The risk of serious harm is greater with methanol than most other alcohols.
Originally posted by TomH:quote:I am aware of the alcohols you are speaking of. They are commonly referred to as SD (specially denatured) alcohols. However, these types of alcohols aren't generally available to the average consumer like the hardware store denatured alcohols are, which is why I didn't make mention of them in my earlier posts. ANY alcohol will kill/harm a person if ingested in sufficient quantities. My point was that, if handled properly, methanol is no more of a threat to your health than any other type of alcohol, and it can be pretty useful stuff if you know what to do with it.
Originally posted by y_p_w: I'm thinking of alcohol as in household personal products. Manufacturers would be insane to use methanol in spray sunscreens or mouthwash - it would simply be too toxic. They just use a slight bittering agent to make it undesirable to drink the stuff.
quote:No doubt! I agree that methanol can be dangerous if one isn't careful with it. However, I would NEVER suggest to someone that it's fine to use methanol as a substitute for isopropyl, they aren't even close!
Originally posted by y_p_w: My only problem with methanol is that tiny quantities can be lethal or permanently damaging. I use isopropryl rubbing alcohol to clean the skin. If I spilled methanol on my skin, I'd wash it off immediately. The risk of serious harm is greater with methanol than most other alcohols.
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
Seriously, do NOT drink it.
