What Schaeffers Products have done for me.

[radiometer]

Bobistheoilguy, I need to let you know the results of the gasoline additive I acquired from you. It was the Schaeffers No.131 Neutra product. I purchased an '87 Mitsubishi Pickup new. I don't recall how long it took, but a 'ping' became audible in the engine, especially while under load. The dealer never took much of an interest in it except to advise me to go to a higher octane gasoline. I reminded them that the book says to use regular octane 87. They insisted the book was only a place to begin, or something like that, when, in fact I needed to go to an 89 octane fuel. I carefully studied the advance curves of the distributor, modified a distributor to hold the curve more perfectly, but none of this seemed to help. I then began using the 89 octane, which quieted the 'ping'. I now have 186k miles on that truck, most of them on the more expensive fuel to keep it running quietly. Once or twice I put in the regular, but the 'ping' would be right there when I did. Recently I acquired a bottle of Schaeffers No.131 Neutra. You instructed me to put it into the fuel tank, which I did, never thinking about what fuel I'm using or the original problems of the engine noise. After I burned the treated gas I decided to try the cheaper fuel as an afterthought. I really did not even think about this when you provided the additive to me. I ran the gas tank to near empty and refueled with the cheaper 87 octane fuel it hadn't had in a very long time. NO PING !!! I ran that tank just about dry and have repeated the process and my little 2.0 litre engine is running along better than I can remember it ever doing and it's doing it quietly on the cheapest gasoline. That's a little success story.
Also, on the recommendation of a tribologist I have been running Schaeffers Blend 15W-40 motor oil in the truck and the Schaeffers Blend 10W-30 in a '99 Nissan Sentra GXE I have. This was suggested to me over the full synthetic I was using at the time. Thanks for an excellent product. krholm

--------------------
krholm

 

[Al]

I was considering the #132 Moly, but after second thoughts (and advice from Bob) I decided against it and put in an order for 5 Gal of the Full syn 5W30. The local rep I bought it from tried to talk me out of it and into the Blend. So there is a certain amount of integrety. However he also told me that Shaeffers was vastly superior to Mobil 1 and would take an additional 200 degrees. Guess he just got carried away.

I just bit my tongue

I am really anxious to use it take an oil analysis (several)

 

[David]

This is a letter that I receive from one of my customer's after 12 months with Schaeffer, he now has been using Schaeffer for about 30 months. I can count at least 20 new customer's he has sent to me. I do sell Schaeffer but I am not a very good salesman, Schaeffer sells its self!
Here's what Matt's Trucking had to say about Schaeffer.

"We have used Schaeffer Oil Products for about twelve months now and we are very impressed with the results of using these fine products

Results we have seen by using Schaeffer in our three dump trucks are :
1. Our miles per gallon has increased an average of 15%
2. Our oil change intervals have increased from 10,000 miles in one truck to 21,000 and the other two from 10,000 miles to 18,500 (all within 1 year)
We average 60,000 to 65,000 miles per year per truck, so that is quite a savings for a small company likes Matt’s Trucking, Inc.
3. Other Schaeffer products we use are : Diesel Treat 2000, Citrol, Penetro 90, Vex Cleaner,
Clean & Cool Radiator Treatment, 238 Moly Supreme Grease, 267 Moly Gear Lube,
239 Super Lube for Transmissions and ,131 Neutra Fuel Treatment
We are totally satisfied with all the Schaeffer Products !!

I am NOT attempting to push schaeffer on anyone, but I wish everyone would at lease take a honest look at these products! People tell me every day that they wish they found schaeffer years before now! I'am sorry Bob for sounding so much like a salesman on you board, but I can't help it!

[ June 20, 2002, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: David ]

 

[Al]

I try to keep an open ind about things. And although I still use Mobil 1 in 6 vehicles I am giving Shaffer's a try and decide on the basis of oil analysis if any good. I'm a kind of "I'll prove to myself" kind of guy.

I have severe doubts about the 15% gain in milage. No study with synthetics or quasi synthetics has ever come up with a number as high as that. I have seen as high as 3-4% with full syns in truck diffs/trans/and engines thats as good as it gets. 1 to 2% is the usual.

 

[Bror Jace]

I agree with Al. I'm willing to believe that a smaller company that has been in business a long time and who is not trying to compete for price on the shelves of Wal-Mart can produce a better product ... but those claims seem a little over the top.

This sort of goes back to the marketing angle that Johnny and I bring up from time to time. I can't find the thread he said "It's all about marketing" but I wrote the following and I thought I'd post it here:

Yes Johnny, it's all about marketing.

When you have a product that many see as essentially the same
regardless of brand (and for the most part, all of the brand name
Group II base dino oils will perform about the same for the average
motorist.

The same principal holds true for toothpaste, potato chips, toilet
paper, pain relievers, cigarettes, skin moisturizers, long distance
phone service, Sure, there might be minor differences between
brands but usually it is minor Mostly, people get in the
habit of buying certain brands and it's Johnny's job
(and all the folks like him) to get you and the others into the habit
of buying his[ stuff and not some others. But, this is easier
said than done because many habits are hard to break.

So, how to get people to buy YOUR brand of oil or whatever product
you are selling?? You market the heck out of it. Advertise on TV and
in magazines, run promotions like worthless, gimmick warranties,
re-design your packaging for the 3rd time in as many years, sponsor a
NASCAR team, etc ...

Most of it is a bunch of shallow fluff but too many people are an
awful lot like sheep. They need to be led and you do that by getting
in their face with your message, whatever it happens to be.

What bugs me is that this marketing is very expensive. On many
products, marketing costs can be a third or more of the final retail
price. This is really astounding when you think of it. Take any
product you see on the shelf and imagine it 30% off. Wouldn't this be
preferable? You'd think so, but without marketing, most people
wouldn't be aware of a given product. Also, when confronted with a
product that is significantly less expensive, people often perceive a
lack of quality whether or not this is actually the case.

Sure, some products take the low-profile approach (Schaeffer Oil
comes to mind

) but in this day and age when brand names are
everything it's a gamble that seems increasingly risky as the
years go by. Brand names are increasingly more important as we are
exposed to an increasing number of messages every day.

The flip side of this is Fram. They start with a comparatively low
quality product ... and then hype the stink out of it.

I
wouldn’t be surprised if marketing costs account for 50% or more of
the retail price of their cruddy filters.

Sadly, this
approach works an awful lot of the time.

I’ve always thought it was the job of the modern consumer to tune out
the flash and the glitz. Unfortunately, most run-of-the-mill boobs
think it’s just fine to go with the flow ... hapless fools they be.

Luckily, ignorance is bliss.

 

[MolaKule]

I agree with Bror and the cost of market hype.

Also, I despise testimonials (even the Amsiol crap), since they are usually very non-specific, and tend to oversimplify matters.

What was the oil used and the drain intervals, the results of the analysis, etc.

I am sure Schaeffer's has quality products when it comes to a moly type lube. But
let's be more specific shall we?

 

[David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
I try to keep an open ind about things. And although I still use Mobil 1 in 6 vehicles I am giving Shaffer's a try and decide on the basis of oil analysis if any good. I'm a kind of "I'll prove to myself" kind of guy.

I have severe doubts about the 15% gain in milage. No study with synthetics or quasi synthetics has ever come up with a number as high as that. I have seen as high as 3-4% with full syns in truck diffs/trans/and engines thats as good as it gets. 1 to 2% is the usual.

---

Al, keep in mind that he Is also using schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 that in it's self will boost fuel mileage as much as 3-5% just on it's on. He also is using sch. trans lube #239 that has the moly, and the 267 Moly Gear Lube in rear ends. I can post his phone number so you may call Matt himself to ask about the increased, if you like. But this is very common with schaeffer products. His over all Lube related savings is more than 30% per year, with extended drains on the oils.(using oil analysis) Here is the last copy of analysis i have on one of his trucks. The truck has a IHC 5000 engine with 170,742 miles, and 24,356 on the oil (same filter)using Supreme 7000 15W40

copper--------3
Iron----------38
chromium------0
aluminum------1
Lead----------0
molybdenum----155
phosphorus----1307
zinc----------1527
magnesium-----31
calcium-------5040
anti-freeze---0
fuel dilution-N
silicon-------2
viscosity-----14.39
sae-----------40w
sulfur--------16
oxidation-----5
nitration-----6
soot----------11

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Normally I'd say that 15% is unusal, but...here it is, you are not taking into account several things that are contributing this 15% gain in the over oil scheme of things in this case..

• He's using a moly oil, anywhere 3-5% gain
  
• he's using a fuel additive, makes #2 fuel into #1, up's cetane
  
  
• His injectors are being cleaned by the fuel additive.. % increase there would vary depending on the amount of injector clogging he prev had.
  
  
• he's using the gear lubes in the rear ends, this will account for the highest percentage of increase as it presents the most drag in any vehicle and with the moly it will reduce the friction tremedously as this is a sliding surface.
  
  
• He's using the 239 Super Lube for Transmissions with moly again, sliding surfaces
  
  
• And of course the moly alum complex grease.
  

now take all those items, give each a percentage some being higher than others, I can see where 15% is a possiblity. If just the oil was the claim for 15%, I totally agree, that would be off in left field but

I have seen the numbers from a test that a cement truck company did and they had an overall overall fuel gain of 25%, also verified with all the data. Taking 4 trucks, 2 running standard, the other 2 were schaefferized head to head for a period of 6 months, everything documented. Pretty impressive when you consider that over a fleet of vehicles could amount to a good bit of savings.

 

[Spector]

well let's see. If these trucks are currently getting 5 mpg and now go to 6 mpg that is a 20% increase. From 6 to 7 a 16% increase etc

All depends on how one plays with statistics.

 

[David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
well let's see. If these trucks are currently getting 5 mpg and now go to 6 mpg that is a 20% increase. From 6 to 7 a 16% increase etc

All depends on how one plays with statistics.

---

Spector, you are right, but when this trucking company spends over $90,000. per year in fuel that would be about 13,500.00 (@15%) per year savings! His fuel saving alone pays for all Lubrication cost.
Now If you drove your car 20,000 miles a year and lets say you get 18 mpg and you pay lets say $1.39 per gal for the gas, that would be about $1,544.00 a year for gas. ok, now if you save 5% on yor mpg, that works out to about $77.00 in fuel savings a year. This would pay for the oil !

 

[UncleS2]

That's not playing with statistics. That's an honest representation of a change in fuel mileage. When you say mileage increased 1 mpg, without saying what original mileage was, you've said almost nothing. 1 mpg+ on 30 mpg+ isn't such a big deal, ~3% or so. But 1 mpg+ added to 5 mpg is one h3lluva big deal. Percentages are the only concise, accurate way to represent changes like this.

 

[Spector]

My point exactly. They did not state what the mpg was, they simply stated a 15% change. they need to give both numbers to place a perspective on things. Some people may just assume hey, I get 25 mpg and now I can get 28.5 mpg by switching.

Savings great also but 15% by itself can be misleading. We do not need Arthur Anderson type reporting ?

 

[David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spector:
My point exactly. They did not state what the mpg was, they simply stated a 15% change. they need to give both numbers to place a perspective on things. Some people may just assume hey, I get 25 mpg and now I can get 28.5 mpg by switching.

Savings great also but 15% by itself can be misleading. We do not need Arthur Anderson type reporting ?

---

OK Spector, I call their office and had them look up what their mpg was before, they keep real good records on their trucks. They were puzzled why i wanted to know, she asked If I didn't know how to do the math,

Haha. I said yes but someone else couldn't. She had to call my back and here's what she said. "ave.on the 3 trucks was 7.02 mpg buy the end of the first year, 6.11 mpg the year before schaeffer, I think that's about 15% increase or .91 mpg increase,,,don't you ?(Now I Know you want believed this but here goes anyway. They now have 4 trucks and the worst mpg is 6.82 and the best mpg is 8.29, she said that's an ave of 7.51 , right? Here are the mpgs on each truck..6.82, 7.13, 7.81, 8.29 Thank you for asking this! because they gave me a nice order while on the phone with me!

 

[VaderSS]

Do all the trucks have the same mileage or did she weight the averages?

Sorry I'm an engineer.

 

[David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by VaderSS:
Do all the trucks have the same mileage or did she weight the averages?

Sorry I'm an engineer.

---

Thanks for your question!
No the trucks do not have the same mileage. I know the 4th. truck is almost new (about 6 months old. the others are like 98, 99 2000 models ranging from about 150,000 to about 350,000 miles. They use a daily report for each truck for fuel,any oil added,tires,maintence,miles, income, etc.for that day and so on,. She figures each truck mpg and added all together , then divided by 4, for the over all averages. The main thing here is they are very happy using schaeffer and I am gald they are happy..That's The Bottom line

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Kinda interesting how that all those numbers works out huh.

David,
funny thing happend to me today. Guy tells me he changed his atf tranny fluid and filter in a 99? dodge ram diesel, with some dexron. I asked why he did that, stated that it wasn't shifting right. Was shifting after 2000 rpms instead of the normal before 2000 rpms.

Anyway, short of it, I realized he was using the wrong fluid, atf+3 7176, and advised him to flush it out completely with the method I had described by disconnecting the lines and pumping it out. But before that, I stuck some of our 131 nuetra in his tranny, and sent him on his way. Within 9 min's, he radio'd me on my nextel, and told me he couldn't believe that his shift problem just went away and wanted to know if that stuff works that fast. I told him in most cases for shift problems yes, but I had wanted to see if he'd noticed (haven not saying anything to him). of course his response was, OH YEAH I NOTICED!. imagine that., before he got back to his office, he called his buddies and now has 2 others wanting this stuff. Go figure.

Also, I think I have an idea of what this chev engine knock is when first starting the engine. I'm wondering why chev isn't forth coming with this info. Get a chance, give me a call, I'll explain what's happening and what I've done so far, again with the neutra.

 

[UncleS2]

Bob, I ran the Neutra #131(yellow bottle, clear as water, smells very volatile yet seems to have some lubricant, yes?)in my last 700 miles in crankcase before I switched to the Schaeffer's 7000 10w30. I've wondered about using it in an auto trans. Does it need to be drained from an auto trans within a few hundred miles, or can it be left in indefinitely- maybe a small dose? I ask because the trans on my mother's 94 Mercury Grand Marquis is feeling loose & shifting kinda sloppy lately. She only puts ~7-8K/yr on it.

 

[David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Kinda interesting how that all those numbers works out huh.


Also, I think I have an idea of what this chev engine knock is when first starting the engine. I'm wondering why chev isn't forth coming with this info. Get a chance, give me a call, I'll explain what's happening and what I've done so far, again with the neutra.

---

Hi Bob, yes I have been thinking about that also! Do you think it could be carbon build up on the top of the piston?, causing the piston to hit the head? The reason i ask is that I have customer with that problem just a little while back. I told him to use the neutra in the engine oil and the gas tank. So he did and the problem all most went away, but not completly. So I told him to repeat it again. I have not talked to him since, so don't know if it stop it all together yet.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Stuart Hughes

quote:

---

I've wondered about using it in an auto trans. Does it need to be drained from an auto trans within a few hundred miles, or can it be left in indefinitely- maybe a small dose? I ask because the trans on my mother's 94 Mercury Grand Marquis is feeling loose & shifting kinda sloppy lately. She only puts ~7-8K/yr on it.

---

You can run a full bottle in there indefinatly with no problem. Have done that with many transmissions.

David,

quote:

---

Do you think it could be carbon build up on the top of the piston?, causing the piston to hit the head? The reason i ask is that I have customer with that problem just a little while back. I told him to use the neutra in the engine oil and the gas tank. So he did and the problem all most went away, but not completly. So I told him to repeat it again. I have not talked to him since, so don't know if it stop it all together yet.

---

You hit it on the head (no pun intended) I have had success with one so far and looking for a couple more with the same problem. Sounds like your having the same.

 

[Bror Jace]

Stuart: "I ask because the trans on my mother's 94 Mercury Grand Marquis is feeling loose & shifting kinda sloppy lately."

I'd add a small bottle of positraction (limited slip differential) additive. I did this with Dad's car (same kind: '94 Grand Marquis) after the owner of a tranny rebuild shop recommended it. We used the Goodwrench-GM fluid but many specialty lubricant companies make this kind of additive: Red Line, Lucas, Synergen, etc ...

It tends to make the tranny shift more positively ... less slipping.