What Oil Viscocity for a new 1600cc dual port VW engine?

[mf150]

I know this question depends a lot on ambient temps., but in SF it doesn't get anywhere near freezing.

one VW place recommends 20W50, some others say 30 weight oil is recommended.

I am leaning towards Mobil 1 15W50.

what do you all recommend?

[ July 07, 2004, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: mf150 ]

 

[toolboy62]

This is all hearsay and I have no experiences with ACVWs but I have heard tell that the function of the oil cooler is based on a 30W motor oil and actually controls the flow through the cooler based on the oil viscosity, not a direct measurement of temperature. So if you are running a stock style oil cooler I would probably stick with the 30W. If you are running an aftermarket cooler with a thermostat, then you have more options...

Someone feel free to correct me if I am off base here.

good luck,

nate

 

[mf150]

good imput, but if that were the case, wouldn't the *reputable* VW place where I had all my engine work done recommend a 30 weight instead of 20W50?

This is where my confusion comes in. I've heard that the cars were spec.'d at 30 weight oils. If so, what is the benifit of running a 20W50 weight?

 

[Bror Jace]

Is this an air cooled beast?

There is a pretty killer thread here about air-cooled VW flat fours.

You could search on "VW" or "air-cooled" to see the discussion and recommendations.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Gene K]

Nothing Expensive! Primary thing without a oil filter is to change it often!

Castrol GTX 20W-50 if it is a used engine as it will not be likely to break loose any existing deposits. Change every 1500 mi or 90 days.

A HDEO like Chevron Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40 if its a new engine as it will help keep it clean. Total Mileage on engine 50 mi / 250 mi / 750 mi / 1500 mi and then every 1500 mi or 90 days after that.

Some people may have other ideas about F4 VW engines but this has always worked for me.

PS Dont forget to clean the screen!

Gene

 

[radiometer]

I purchased a '72 Super Beetle 1600cc engine new. On the advise of my VW mechanic I used GTX 20W-50, except I changed every 3k miles. At 101k miles a valve stem broke. I asked the same mechanic to mic it out as he rebuilt it and let me know where the wear was taking place. He told me all moving parts were within factory specs as being new. After that I drove that 1600 engine on the same oil on the same OCI for another 200k miles and it was running great the day I sold it.

 

[Gene K]

quote:

---

Originally posted by krholm:
I purchased a '72 Super Beetle 1600cc engine new. On the advise of my VW mechanic I used GTX 20W-50, except I changed every 3k miles. At 101k miles a valve stem broke. I asked the same mechanic to mic it out as he rebuilt it and let me know where the wear was taking place. He told me all moving parts were within factory specs as being new. After that I drove that 1600 engine on the same oil on the same OCI for another 200k miles and it was running great the day I sold it.

---

krholme I was assuming this wouldnt be a daily driver. I usually ran up on the 90 days before the 1500 mi.

BTW let me guess, cylinder #3.

Gene

 

[mf150]

after 65 valve clearance on these air-cooled engines are .006"

anything less than that (.004)and you burn a valve and you loose power with anything more than .007.

as for the oil, I changed it today to Mobil 1 15W50. I will change the oil every 1500 miles or three months.

I also did a valve adjustment and set teh valves to .006. The engine is running much smoother on Mobil 1, and no leaks due to it being a new 1600cc dual port.

 

[ediamiam]

I run a 4 cyl aircooled 912 Porsche and use 15w40. Its been rebuilt in the last couple of years. I broke it in using Valvoline 30 Racing. I know a lot of the 912 crowd like the Castrol in 20w50, but for many of them, its been years since their engines have been rebuilt. Prior to my rebuild it was 20w50, any brand, with frequency of change being the key. I know a couple of other 912 guys like the 15w40 also. I'm not brand sensitive in this weight. Also running in the Sacramento Valley.

 

[radiometer]

Gene K: I honestly don't remember which cylinder that stem broke on. Not only was that car a daily driver but I drove it in 1972 from Key West, Florida to Alaska and back to Jacksonville, Florida, where I live. In '82 I drove it to Alaska and back again. I drove it to the west coast and across this country any number of times. I would carry oil supplies with me and do changes and tune ups wherever I was when they became due. In Alaska I camped beside the road, pulled wheel bearings for cleaning and repacking and a complete periodic servicing. I carried a spare belt and plugs, a spare fuel pump and tried to be prepared for wherever I might need them. I did one oil change on a roadside one time when snow was falling so thickly I could hardly get around in it. We had some good times with that car. I always kept the used oil in containers and got rid of it in appropriate places where I could legally leave it.

 

[Gene K]

quote:

---

Originally posted by krholm:
Gene K: I honestly don't remember which cylinder that stem broke on. Not only was that car a daily driver but I drove it in 1972 from Key West, Florida to Alaska and back to Jacksonville, Florida, where I live. In '82 I drove it to Alaska and back again. I drove it to the west coast and across this country any number of times. I would carry oil supplies with me and do changes and tune ups wherever I was when they became due. In Alaska I camped beside the road, pulled wheel bearings for cleaning and repacking and a complete periodic servicing. I carried a spare belt and plugs, a spare fuel pump and tried to be prepared for wherever I might need them. I did one oil change on a roadside one time when snow was falling so thickly I could hardly get around in it. We had some good times with that car. I always kept the used oil in containers and got rid of it in appropriate places where I could legally leave it.

---

They were tough old cars if maintained properly. If they broke they were not hard to fix. Unfortunately unlike the Mopar Slant 6 they could not go 300,000 mi without a valve adjustment. It is so hard to convince Americans to maintain vehicles. Sometimes I think for every person who believes a 3,000 mi oil change is required on a modern fuel injected car there is another who thinks he shouldnt bother with oil changes because he never keeps a car over 3 years!

Gene

 

[mf150]

I have to do valve adjustments every 3000 miles.

They are a fun change of routine for me.

I adjust the valves everytime I change the oil...just force of habit.

I'm just glad my Mustang has self-adjusting valves; otherwise, I'd be pulling my hair out!

I change the fluid (64 Karmann Ghia)to Mobil 1 15W50 today, and the car is running better than ever.

 

[D Stewart]

I used to run the parts department of a VW dealer in 69-72. In those years, I had a hot 69 (1600 dual port) and a 60 with a 356 Porsche motor transplant. I ran Valvoline 40 wt racing oil in both. Today, I would probably go with a 15-50 Mobil 1.

 

[Gene K]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
My recommendation would have been Pennzoil 15W40 ... but they've recently emasculated the additive package.

Now it would be Schaeffer 15W40 synthetic blend.

--- Bror Jace

---

Bror what do you think of the additive package of Royal Purple Long Rider?

Someone recently posted a VOA of it.

Gene

 

[Bror Jace]

Jelly, not to get too far off the subject, but I wonder if they didn't revise the additive package down (remove the moly, etc ...) due to some diesel-related issue?

Or was it a cost thing?

It's nice to hear that Pennzoil's Long Life still seems to hold up well but I'd really miss that additive package ... especially in high temp, air-cooled applications.

Do you know for sure you have the new stuff?

I bought 5 quarts of what I'm pretty sure is the old formula a week ago but at this point, I'll stick with Schaeffer 15W40 for most of my applications.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Jelly]

Bror,

I don't work for Shell so I can't really tell ya. I don't see though where it was a diesel related issue as the "old" stuff had earned all the manufacturer and foreign specifications/approvals.

Economics are the bottom line and that's the only thing I can think of...

Yeah, the "old" stuff looked good on paper, but the "new" stuff seems to be performing just as well, if not better in some aspects (in regards to oil consumption) than the old formulation.

I'm darn sure that I got the new formula because the Long-Life I picked up the other day is significantly lighter in color than the previous Long-Life I've picked up.

For reference, I used some Pennzoil 10w-30 the other day and it's about the same color as the old Long-Life - deep, dark brown. Kinda throws you off pouring NEW dark oil into an engine!

[ July 08, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[Bror Jace]

Gene, I'll have to take a look.

Thanks Jelly.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

I used the search feature of this forum and found the following VW/air-cooled threads:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005291#000000

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005598#000003

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006272

My recommendation would have been Pennzoil 15W40 ... but they've recently emasculated the additive package.

However, that recommendation still holds if you can find bottles which appear to be at least 3-4 months old.

Now it would be Schaeffer 15W40 synthetic blend.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Jelly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
My recommendation would have been Pennzoil 15W40 ... but they've recently emasculated the additive package.

However, that recommendation still holds if you can find bottles which appear to be at least 3-4 months old.
Bror Jace

---

I was a BIG fan of the "old" stuff because of its great ability to reduce consumption in comparison to other lubes, but I'm currently using the "new" stuff in a few applications (Chevy truck, Chevy car, Dodge/Cummins truck, Ford tractor, Kubota tractor, Farmall tractor) and would still whole-heartedly recommend it!

I've been able to perceive no noticeable difference in engine operation, but oil consumption has stayed the same as with the "old" formulation or actually improved!

I've also used Rotella 15w-40 in all these applications, and consumption was still much higher (Well, the Dodge wasn't using any to start with, so it doesn't count), so I can positively say that whatever the new formulation is, it definitely is not an exact copy of Rotella...