What oil in a track adn daily driven 2001 Celica GT-S?

Messages
146
Location
Irvine or Berkeley, Ca
I was wondering what oil everyone would suggest for me. I Have a 2001 Toyota Celica GT-S and it is my daily driver and my track car. I have taken it to the Streets of Willow a few times and have been running Mobil 1 5w-30 TriSynth in it each time with OEM filters. What weight and brand of oil do you suggest I use, or is the Mobil 1 good enough? Should I be using a heavier weight oil such as 10w-30? What oil would be the safest for preventing oil starvation (I run about 100 miles each run). Most of the time my car is in the 5000-8300rpm range. Should I be running some sort of Redline racing oil for the track day then switch it out the day after? Thank you
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,988
Location
Oakville, Ontario
Don't waste the oil by changing it out after the race, whatever you end up running should still be good for more than just one race if you pick a good synthetic. I would suggest you stick with Mobil 1 5w30 right now, but do an oil analysis on it after you've run it for a few thousand miles and a race or two, and see how it holds up. If the results aren't that great, then try out Schaeffer's oil, Redline or Amsoil, any of those three should outperform Mobil 1 in harder driving.
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
Personally I would run at least Red Line 10w30. I don't see any need for 5w30 in CA. Especially when racing. No need for the racing oil unless you are doing this for money. The only advantage is supposed drop in friction for a couple more hp. But it lacks detergents for long term use. You could use the street oil and change every 5-7500 miles at minimum. I would verify that with analysis and then see how much longer you can go.
 
Messages
263
Location
DFW, TX
quote:
Originally posted by Steve S: IMO Mobil 1 is lacking in additives to be a heavy duty synthetic oil.
What do you base your opinion on? Here is Redline 10w40 vw M1 0w40. I could not find a M1 10w30 in the virgin secion, but the 0w40 additives should be the same or real close:
code:
         M1         Redline
Boron   130           15
Mag      0             7
Calcium 2746         2521
Zinc    1202         1005 
Moly     0           613

Looking at UOAs, the Zinc for Redline is normally between 1000 - 1400 and for M1 is usually aroud 900 - 1200. Also, I think is has been proven that M1 has about 80 ppm of moly I found these in the VOA section: Redline: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000017#000000 M1: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000044#000000 So, from my uneducated eyes, it looks like Redline and M1 have very similar (except for hte Moly) additive amounts.
 
Messages
5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
00 scrub, I agree with Jason's recommendation: use 10W30 instead of 5W30 .... it's more thermal and shear stable and you don't need that extra cold pumpability in SouCal. And, after pyromaster's somewhat disappointing Red Line results, I would like to see the results of someone putting 3,000-4,000 miles (including track time) on Mobil 1. He drives an Integra so it wouldn't be exactly the same, but it would be interesting. But if it were my car, I'd use Red Line oil. --- Bror Jace
 
Messages
18,449
Location
East of IGO
A very heavy duty petro or syn, oil for the peace of mind . Lots of antiwear additives for valve train protection. IMO Mobil 1 is lacking in additives to be a heavy duty synthetic oil. Does your engine have an oil cooler on the side of the block? [ April 16, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve S ]
 

00 scrub

Thread starter
Messages
146
Location
Irvine or Berkeley, Ca
SInce I'm looking for the oil with the best anti-wear properties do you suggest that I use the Redline 10w-30? I will try that for my next event, and get my M! TriSynth UOA done and comapre them. Unfortunatley the oil cooler for my car is on the to do list as is an accurate water or oil temp gauge and oil psi gauge. I don't fully understand what addatives do what to oil except that Zinc is for metal to metal contact, or am I wrong on that oen too? Thanks for the suggestions PS: I haven't seen schafeers oil anywhere before. Where can I buy it? PPS: What oil filter shoudl I be running? I don't wnat any sort of oil starvation while on track. I have heard many good things about the OEM Toyota filters so I have been sticking to those. I have no evidance backing my worry about oil starvation though (I don't have an oil pressure gauge yet).
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,988
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by 00 scrub: PS: I haven't seen schafeers oil anywhere before. Where can I buy it?
From Tim Mills (see ad above) at 1-800-737-1747
quote:
PPS: What oil filter shoudl I be running? I don't wnat any sort of oil starvation while on track.
If money is no object, CM Racing makes a very high flow filter, but they charge about $100 for the unit and $10 for each replacement element. For commonly available filters, the K&N is one of your best bets, it's designed for the racing environment and flows very well and has a very high burst strength and very strong outer shell.
 
Messages
5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I've been unimpressed with the older M1 Tri-Synthetic's anti-wear properties ... whether it was in my hard-driven Civic ... or my lawn mower. [Roll Eyes] Super-Syn is an improvement ... but I still think it's iffy for track duty. [I dont know] As for filters, skip the high-efficiency filters like Mobil 1, Pure-One, etc ... You want FLOW and the ability to filter out the <15micron particles will have to be compromised. As Patman said, K&N might be a good choice. Hard to say for sure about any others until some flow testing is done ... and that will be part number specific and may not give any clues about brands in general. [I dont know] --- Bror Jace
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
What type of oil temps are you seeing?? and for how long? If your oil temps are below 220 degrees stick with an Xw30. If they get higher than that during your track time, then I would go up a grade for the race then go back to the xw30 for street. Mobil one is a "racing" type of oil is it not?? I would stick with that.
 

00 scrub

Thread starter
Messages
146
Location
Irvine or Berkeley, Ca
Wow you guys are scaring me about tracking my car with Mobil 1. About which weight I should use, should I use Redline 10w-30, 10w-40, or 15w-50 motor oil for my next track session? Also should I use thier "High performace motor oil" or thier racing oils? Thanks for your input [ April 26, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: 00 scrub ]
 
Messages
33,971
Location
Southern NJ
I think what they were refering to is that Mobil 1 is an OTC oil, meaning there are other oils such as Redline and Amsoil that have better specs. Higher HT/HS is important for racing and Redline and Amsoil both outperform M1. Whether or not this makes them better would have to be tested. Try running the Mobil 1 and then switch and do a comparison. It would be a great UOA to compare and look at. M1 should be just fine though. If you were racing a new Dodge Viper, I'd say go with the later. [Smile]
 
Messages
5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I guess I've felt that Mobil 1 has let me down a few too many times ... most recently in a lowly push lawn mower. I had Mobil 1 Tri-Syn in it (10W30, I think) and left it in for a whopping 19 months ... maybe 20-30 hours of usage. The oil was still a nice, golden color on the dipstick. So, no need to dump this wonderful oil out so early, right? [I dont know] Then I got it warmed up and drained it out a month ago ... and it was full of metal flakes. [Eek!] WTF?? [Roll Eyes] Do I think Mobil 1 has what it takes to be pushed to the extreme and still be a top performer? Nope, not really. It's better than a conventional oil in some applications and under light use, it can go well past 5,000 and still give good results but I don't trust it under heavy loads. It's good in some applications and the SuperSyn formula makes up for the major deficiency of the Tri-Syn, but I think there are better oils available for racing or really heavy duty use ... and Red Line and Amsoil come to mind. [Wink] If you go with Red Line, use their street formula. The race version is a touch better at preventing wear ... but it does so with a nearly complete lack of detergents and corrosion preventatives. --- Bror Jace
 
Messages
33,971
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
It's good in some applications and the SuperSyn formula makes up for the major deficiency of the Tri-Syn, but I think there are better oils available for racing or really heavy duty use ... and Red Line and Amsoil come to mind
This seems to be the consensus.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
I'd try the Mobil 1, supersyn in a 10w-30 grade and maybe test it a couple of times. I think it'll do just fine in this application. If you are just racing occasionally I wouldn't be concerned about using a slightly thinner oil. TooSlick
 

00 scrub

Thread starter
Messages
146
Location
Irvine or Berkeley, Ca
I think I will pick up some Redline 10w-30(or -40) for my next event either in June or July. Luckily I have never seen any metal particles in my M1 after a track session, but your experiance is kind of scaring me, My track sessions keep my engine above 6000rpm for an extended period of time and I don't want to risk loosing compression and whatnot beacuse of poor lubrication. What company do you suggest I use for my UOA? BTW the tri-syn that I am usign is relativley new, I bough it in September of 2002. I thought taht the newer tri-syn was similar to the supersyn?
 
Messages
4
Location
OC, CA
scrub, I run at Willow too, maybe I've seen you there a couple times before. I run an Integra Type R as a daily driver/weekend racer and have been using Mobile 1 SuperSyn 10W30. I have a magnetic drain plug and have yet to catch any visible metal flakes onto it using that oil. After reading up on this site though I'd definitely like to try Schaeffer's. I think I will give the Schaeffers guy a call soon, maybe get a good oil comparison to see how they do on my car and the conditions I run it in.
 
Top