What OIl for Turbo Motors????

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47
Location
MD
I guess I've been reading too much and now I'm just confused as to what oil to use. I have A VW turbo 1.8 4 cylinder. The computer has been modded so that the turbo runs more boost than stock. I know turbo motors get pretty hot and I need to use a good high quality oil. I have been using 5-30 Mobil 1, but now I'm not too sure that is still the way to go. Thoughts anyone???
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,017
Location
Guelph, Ontario
With a turbo engine you definitely want to run a full synthetic oil, but I'd also make sure it's got a pretty high flash point too, something around 470 or higher. This leaves out Mobil 1.
 
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11,005
Location
Canberra ACT Australia
What viscosity does your owners manual spec? Is your area predominantly hot or cold? Redline or even M1 0W-40 which VW dealerships here sell and Porsche factory fill their turbo's or maybe NEO even? Schaeffers Supreme 7000 if you live in US/Canada seems to be excellent. Maybe Amsoil if you can handle their bs? A good allrounder is Delvac 1 5W-40. Good to know I'm not the only one trying to select the 'best' oil.
 
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2,759
Location
CarMax
I have a Saab 9-5 with a 3.0L V6 turbo and I run Mobil One Tri-Syn 10W-30. While I've been happy with it all the reading I've been doing here and other places has me leaning towards Schaeffer's or Red Line once my M1 inventory runs out. If you make a decision I'd be curious to know what it is.
 
Messages
282
Location
VA
quote:
Originally posted by VW-MAN: I guess I've been reading too much and now I'm just confused as to what oil to use. I have A VW turbo 1.8 4 cylinder. The computer has been modded so that the turbo runs more boost than stock. I know turbo motors get pretty hot and I need to use a good high quality oil. I have been using 5-30 Mobil 1, but now I'm not too sure that is still the way to go. Thoughts anyone???
I have the same engine (2000 Jetta 1.8T) with a computer chip, exhaust, and intake. I currently run M1 5W-30 and have run the 0W-40 too in the past. I am going to have my current oil analyzed soon, so we'll see. I also use the VW OEM filter. The manual says to use 5W-40 or 5W-30. I suspect that my analysis after 5K miles (which is the factory change interval) will be fine, but I may switch back to the 0W-40 soon because I believe it's a better product. I have the same username on vwvortex...I also start a lot of the oil war threads there. [Smile]
 
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5,336
Location
London, AR
Most of the problems with a turbo, gas/diesel engine are the user. Proper shut down procedures or the turbo will coke the oil around the bearings. I ran 10w40 dino in a custom installed RayJay E series turbo on a 413 dodge for 10 years. But I used an EGT guage (pyro) on the downpipe and shut it off at 275 degrees. I use an after turbo probe for shut-down and a pre-turbo probe for running and switch as I need. I am running a 95 Power Stroke Diesel and GCVW runs about 15K. I sometimes run for 2-3 hours over 2800 rpm, and I hold boost under 22 psi and EGT pre-turbo to 1150-1250F. I am presently using Delo 400 15W40. 45K miles of this vehicle have been on dino. I know this is not apples to apples, but the pre/post turbo temps are, as much over 1300 degrees your valves are probably going to liquify, and I am sure you not are making 22 psi boost unless you are ADI/water injected. Yes I am chipped, dual foam air cleaner, and soon to be propane injected, waiting on my tank certification. If you are set on a synthetic then my choice for synthetic oil in your instance would be Delvac I 5W40 as mentioned above or Amsoil 5W30 Heavy Duty Diesel. Both of these oil are premimum. I personally don't like Mobil I for turbos. Delvac is a whole different ball game. There are good dino oils if want to change at 3k. I would look at the 10W30 for winter and 15W40 for summer.
 

twb

Messages
65
Location
Bergen, NY
VW-MAN, you might want to check out my results in the analysis section of this forum. I got some awesome results in my Passat 1.8T using Schaeffers 5w30. Now I haven't gotten chipped (yet), and I don't drive it like I stole it, but I do get on it pretty hard for short periods of time. If you find my post, make sure you get to my follow-up where I post Terry Dyson's comments. I recommend you spend some time poking around Bob's site learning about oil. The oil threads over on VWVortex crack me up. They demonstrate a lot of naivete.
 

VW-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
47
Location
MD
Thanks for all your comments. Keep it up! twb, During you run with the Schaeffers, how was your oil usage? If you spend any time on VWVortex you will see that many with the 1.8T also experience oil usage. I tend to go through 1 quart every 5000 miles.
 
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3,709
Location
Chattanooga, TN
I placed my analysis results on the other board as well on my twin turbo. I use Amsoil 10W30 and go 5000 miles (well, actually 5000 miles or one year which ever comes first) and I believe analysis looks fine. Could easily go longer. Bigger issue may be that you should let turbos wind down for a minute before shutting down engine to let turbos cool down, that prevent coking which is more prevalent with dino and turbos.
 
Messages
282
Location
VA
quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: dbrowne1 Why the change from 0W-40 to 5W-30? That seems to go against Mobils own recommendation. IMHO 40W for turbo bearings a good idea especially in hot areas.
Mobil's recommendation (and Redline's) for this engine is their 5W-30 synthetic. We'll see what the analysis says. When I did use the 0W-40, it consumed considerably more of it, probably because more VI improvers are used which kills the volatility numbers and more of it will burn of into gas. My car consumes practically zero oil using the 5W-30, and maybe 1/2 a qt. with the 0W-40, over 5K miles. I should add that I beat my car pretty good (although not as bad as I used to). I run twice the stock boost...and I use it. 59 Vetteman- The concern about coking and blocked oil lines and accelerated bearing wear is not nearly as much an issue in my application. First, my turbo is water cooled, and second, a PAO-based synthetic when it gets REAL hot will largely just volatize into harmless gas, whereas a Group II or III oil will coke and form hard crud that will block lines and sandblast the bearings. That's why I don't use something like Shaeffers or Synpower 5W-40, even though both of those have better additives than M1. [ June 28, 2002, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: dbrowne1 ]
 
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5,336
Location
London, AR
dbrowne1, You sure are correct on dino oil cool down. That is why I have to sometimes wait up to 10 minutes to shut the engine off after a long hard pull in the hills. This way I can ensure minimal to no coking and oil problems. I posted my numbers under 8K on Amsoil in the Oil analysis section. The numbers were good except a couple. I should be getting an analysis soon on my dino with 5K, then I'll have more to go on.
 

twb

Messages
65
Location
Bergen, NY
To VW-MAN: I've got about 18,000 miles on right now. I've never had to add a drop of oil, not even during break-in. The level on the dipstick never moves. It just plain-ole doesn't burn any oil.
 
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11,005
Location
Canberra ACT Australia
dbrowne1 Sorry I should have said Mobil Australia's rec is 0W-40. No fuel economy stds (CAFE etc) here which seems to cloud viscosity recommendations in the US. Here they aim towards higher viscosities for better protection and of course ambient heat In Oz can be a big issue. 0W-30 and 5W-30 purposely not sold here as the Mobil tech rep said "they just don't cut it". I'm using 10w-30 Pennzoil dino for seal hardening after Auto-RX clean in my turbo (it is winter) and I'm not leaning on it, then back to a XW-40 syn after that.
 
Messages
282
Location
VA
quote:
Originally posted by twb: VW-MAN, you might want to check out my results in the analysis section of this forum. I got some awesome results in my Passat 1.8T using Schaeffers 5w30. Now I haven't gotten chipped (yet), and I don't drive it like I stole it, but I do get on it pretty hard for short periods of time. If you find my post, make sure you get to my follow-up where I post Terry Dyson's comments. I recommend you spend some time poking around Bob's site learning about oil. The oil threads over on VWVortex crack me up. They demonstrate a lot of naivete.
A chip is going to have a HUGE effect on the beating that your oil takes. You're doubling the factory boost to over 1 bar, and running much richer at WOT. My car probably produces about 220hp and 250 ft-lb at the crank, and has peak EGTs of 1400 F. So in my opinion, a full-blown "real" synthetic is more important than a better additive package in terms of preventing the oil from oxidizing and coking. Redline just came out with a 5W-40 street oil, so I may try that. It has the usual Redline additives (including high quality moly) and it's polyester based. It's also a little pricey to be running for only 5K miles. Most people on vortex don't know a thing about oil. I started a thread there a while back about the tri-syn M1 (SJ vs. SL) vs. Supersyn that went to like 9 pages. A few people there (like "john s") do know what they're talking about.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
dbrowne: "a PAO-based synthetic when it gets REAL hot will largely just volatize into harmless gas, whereas a Group II or III oil will coke and form hard crud that will block lines and sandblast the bearings." Gee, I remembered the data on Red Line's site suggested just the opposite. Petroleum vaporized off while PAO left a hard deposit. [I dont know]
 
Messages
282
Location
VA
quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace: dbrowne: "a PAO-based synthetic when it gets REAL hot will largely just volatize into harmless gas, whereas a Group II or III oil will coke and form hard crud that will block lines and sandblast the bearings." Gee, I remembered the data on Red Line's site suggested just the opposite. Petroleum vaporized off while PAO left a hard deposit. [I dont know]
I don't see anything on Redline's website that suggests that. When a Group III oil gets heated to 800F in a hot turbo that gets shut down, it behaves the same as a conventional oil an forms hard carbon crud. When PAO sees that kind of abuse, it breaks down by vaporizing. This is my understanding anyway...if I'm dead wrong, by all means tell me. In other news... I went to Walmart tonight, and they had a new shipment of the 5qt Mobil 1 jugs. These were the new Supersyn formula, and they cut the price to $15.00 (from $17.88) so I figured 'why not?' and grabbed one. I'm getting my Tri-syn (SJ) sample analyzed in the next couple weeks by Terry when I change, and I'll throw the new stuff in and have a back to back comparison by early September. Both are 5W-30.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I went back to their site and found it again. I remember it as being a little more dramatic but here's what I found: Click on the following link ... http://redlineoil.com/redlineoil/engoilti.htm ... and scroll just a hair less than 50% of the way down the page, you'll find a chart and a chunk of text which precedes it: "Figure 4 compares the thermal stability of petroleum and other synthetics with Red Line.This test was performed at 500°F and is representative of temperatures seen in the ring area and upper cylinder ... It is interesting to note that other synthetics produced considerably more deposit than the petroleum. Petroleum evaporates more readily than the synthetics, so more of the synthetic remains to thermally decompose into a hard deposit. The thermal stability of the synthetic hydrocarbon used in other synthetics is only slightly greater than a petroleum hydrocarbon molecule."
 
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Location
Ocala, Florida
Dbrown...
quote:
That's why I don't use something like Shaeffers or Synpower 5W-40, even though both of those have better additives than M1. So in my opinion, a full-blown "real" synthetic is more important than a better additive package in terms of preventing the oil from oxidizing and coking.
Might I suggest you re-think your position as you are dwelling mainly on the base oil properties and are failing(like many do) to see the overall effect on the base oil due to the additive package. It's not so much the base oil that will keep the oil from oxidizing, but the additives. Here's a little something to think about and one thing most fail to see. You worry about the heat killing the base oil so you goto a base oil capable of lasting a little longer with the higher heat. Not bad but.. What about this approach. Why not have a good base oil but then add the type of additives that will combat friction therefore creating less wear and less heat. By doing this, it then puts less demand on the oil to start with. Then add a better antioxidant additive, this will not allow the oil to oxidize as fast as many due to the fact this keeps oxidation levels down by nuetalizing the acids before oxidation sets in. Now add a good detergent package, so that when oxidation levels start to overcome the antioxidant levels, the detergents help keep the acids from building up and keeping it clean until it is changed which should be done before the oil gets too low on these additives. So, point is, you're putting more demand on the base oil with a lower quality or not a good balanced additive package which means you'd have to run a full synth to stay up with an oil that has a better additive package that keeps the demand on the base oil at bay longer. The higher the demand on the base oil, then so should be the higher the quality or balance of additives to assist the base oil as the base oil alone cannot maintain long without this. This is why when looking at these oils, quit looking at just one side of things and start looking at all sides. This is why Schaeffers does as well as it does as it has an excellent well balanced blend of additives vs base oil properties. Unfortunatly too many people like yourself look at nothing but the base oil and figure it could never do as good as a full synth(that is if it is a full synth). So, I think playing the synth oil is better than the group whatever card is so overrated and misleading. One other example I can give you, Redline.. most of the oil analysis reports i have seen seem to show how redlines oxidation levels are higher in comparision to many other analysis with much higher miles that show better oxidation levels... wanna take a stab as to why? maybe additive balance? I'm sure that redlines base oil is better but too much of one thing, too little of another and such will upset the end results. This is another reason as to why you shouldn't use aftermarket additives. [ June 30, 2002, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
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