what oil for turbo engine

[chasgood]

I have a new PT Turbo and trying to decide what oil to use. Turbos are harder on oil than most engines. So hard on oil that reading amsoils website they say only 9000 miles for turbos (3x what the manual says)with the series 2000 and 3000 oil they boast is good for 25,000 miles. I don't care to go with long change intervals so a full synthetic is out due to cost. 3000 to 5000 miles at most. To me oil changes flush out junk filters can't trap. Don't care to do the the oil sample thing either.
The place I get my oil changed at says they have a lot of people that put in one qt of Mobil 1 with the rest being dino. This makes a 20% synthetic blend using 5 qts total. Most otc synthetic blends are only 8% to 15% syn from what I read in these forums.
What do you think of oil mixing?
What do you think of the blended oils?
Chrysler preffered oil is 5w30 GF-3. changed at 3000 mile severe service or 5000 mile normal service. Chrysler uses a larger oil filter on the turbo 2.4 engine than the the nonturbo 2.4
Had the first change done at 1000 miles using Castrol GTX 5w30.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by chasgood:
I have a new PT Turbo and trying to decide what oil to use. Turbos are harder on oil than most engines. So hard on oil that reading amsoils website they say only 9000 miles for turbos (3x what the manual says)with the series 2000 and 3000 oil they boast is good for 25,000 miles. I don't care to go with long change intervals so a full synthetic is out due to cost. 3000 to 5000 miles at most. To me oil changes flush out junk filters can't trap. Don't care to do the the oil sample thing either.
The place I get my oil changed at says they have a lot of people that put in one qt of Mobil 1 with the rest being dino. This makes a 20% synthetic blend using 5 qts total. Most otc synthetic blends are only 8% to 15% syn from what I read in these forums.
What do you think of oil mixing?
What do you think of the blended oils?
Chrysler preffered oil is 5w30 GF-3. changed at 3000 mile severe service or 5000 mile normal service. Chrysler uses a larger oil filter on the turbo 2.4 engine than the the nonturbo 2.4
Had the first change done at 1000 miles using Castrol GTX 5w30.

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I don't think the "home brew" method of mixing oils is the way to go. If you're dead set against using a synthetic, go with a good quality Group II based 10w30 or a synthetic blend. I'd choose 10w30 because it will have less VI improvers than the 5w30 and will be less prone to coking in the hot turbo. Your PT Cruiser manual should say that 10w30 is an acceptable alternative to 5w30. Check the fine print.

To be honest, I can't understand the "synthetic is out due to cost." You've laid out all that money for a PT Turbo, and you're not willing to spend an extra $15 or $20 per oil change to ensure the engine gets the best protection possible?

 

[Patman]

Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for one of Schaeffer oil's blends then. Less than $3 per quart when you buy in bulk, and it outperforms many full synthetics out there. It's got a stronger percentage of synthetic in it's base oil, around 25% PAOs.

Look in our used oil analysis section here and you'll see more about how well this oil performs.

[ January 05, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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I have a new PT Turbo and trying to decide what oil to use. Turbos are harder on oil .......a full synthetic is out due to cost. ..... To me oil changes flush out junk filters can't trap.Don't care to do the the oil sample thing either.
What do you think of oil mixing?
Chrysler uses a larger oil filter on the turbo 2.4 engine than the the nonturbo 2.4
Had the first change done at 1000 miles using Castrol GTX 5w30.

---

I have a Volvo turbo with 234,000 miles on the engine. I wouldn't use regular petroleum oil for the exact reason you say. The oil running through a turbo gets extremely hot and will rapidly degrade some constituents (mostly the viscosity enhancers/"thickeners") and even some fraction of the base petroleum oil. So check the cost of a replacement turbo before you rule out real synthetic motor oil.

Also, don't so readily rule out oil analysis. You certainly don't need to do it EVERY oil change. Oil analysis can tell you a lot more than when your oil needs changing. It can tell you if your car was put together correctly. It can talk to you about your driving habits and turbo usage. VERY cheap insurance IMHO.

You are thinking about mixing oils? In a word: NO.
I am NOT saying the oils won't be "compatible" - but you have a new car and you want to play chemist because a zippydube guy at $6/hr says it's the way to go?....hmmm...additive clash comes to mind. Turbo.

Chrysler confirms BiTOG, (and my, and old time) logic of - larger oil filter, more oil volume is better - especially for, a, you guessed it: Turbo!

I would not leave the GTX for more than 2.5K in a turbo. If you go 3K get an analysis.

I run 10K (about 3X) intervals in my turbo with Amsoil. Oil analysis says the oil is tired but still OK and not overly contaminated.

Sorry if I come accross as too strong but I do consider myself as a bit of a turbo maintenance freak

ENJOY your new car! BTW - How does the boost feel? (I think the "regular" PT is a bit of a slow dog

)

 

[mormit]

I agree with Patman that Schaeffer's blend is the way to go if you're not using a full-syn. It is right at $3/qt if you buy it by the case.

I currently have this in my tubo car (02 Volvo S40) and should have a sample in by March so we'll see how it holds up. I'm planning on going to 5000 or 7500mi changes as these are the dealer recommended intervals.

 

[TooSlick]

I think it's very shortsighted not to run synthetic oil in any gas engine turbo, given the exhaust gas temps and how hot the turbo housing can get. I just bought an Audi TT roadster, with the 225 hp, 1.8L turbo. This engine doesn't specifically mandate synthetic oil, but I'd say a large percentage of customers are using it anyway, after talking to several Audi techs at the Dealership - Jim Ellis in Atlanta ....The factory fill is an SAE 0w-30, ACEA "A3" oil, which is of course synthetic .

I'm going to use Amsoil in my engine since I get the stuff at wholesale, but if I wanted something off the shelf my first choice would be Mobil 1, in a 5w-30/10w-30 grade ....I'd feel more comfortable running synthetic in a turbo even with a drain interval that is 2-3 times as long as a petroleum oil. When you factor in the value of your labor to do an oil change, say $15-$20, you really aren't saving anything by using cheap, low quality oil and changing it every 3000 miles ....

I'll probably stick with Audi's recommended change interval of 10,000 miles/1 year in this engine and I still expect to get 250,000 miles out of all the lubricated parts, including the turbo unit.

TooSlick

 

[widman]

Mixing your own blend will get the worst of both, not the best of both.
I use Delo in my 99 Runner turbo diesel. Drive it hard up the steep mountains and change every 6,000 km. Oil is holding up very well (I do remember to let it idle or low rpm the last 2 or 3 minutes before shutting off the engine). Wish I could get as good an air filter as the oil. The last two analysis are posted here

At 16500 kilometers the analysis showed excessive dirt in the oil and some wear metals. The air filter was changed and on the second analysis we see that the contamination with dirt is down 37% and the iron wear is down 35%, with copper and lead wear down 70%.

I have another sample that I forgot to send with my last batch. Before you decide you don't believe in analysis, try it. You might like it.

[ January 05, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Ken2]

chasgood,

One way to find a superior oil is to look at the European rating as well as the U.S. rating. The current U. S. rating is API-SL, but that's a quality floor. The Europeans, who use a lot of turbochargers on gasoline engines, have their ACEA ratings http://www.acea.be/ACEA/20020618PublicationsOilSequences.pdf (look at page 4). Find an oil that's rated at least ACEA A5, and A3 is better. A1 is the minimum.

I wouldn't worry about the GF-3, 'cuz that's for Daimler-Chrylser's Corporate Average Fuel Ecomony payments. In those hot OK summers, do consider a 15W-40, and probably a 10W-30 the rest of the year...or a 0W-40 all year.

For slow city driving, that turbocharger probably won't need any special cooldown, but after some hard driving the turbo is really hot and if you shut the engine right down it'll likely cook any brand of oil in the turbo bearings. Give it a two minute to five minute idle depending on how hard you've been running and how suddenly you shut down (like, running 80 on the interstate, then immediately stopping at a rest area--bad idea...let it idle).

Ken

 

[chasgood]

WOW. Lots of good replys. Thank You for your input everyone.
You got me thinking about using All Mobil 1.
0W-40 as It meets the ACEA A3 standard and states for turbocharger engine use. Europeans do use turbos more so I would beleave the standards reflect that.
Mobil doesn't give a drain interval so I would have to change it every 5000 miles to stay in warranty.
So it looks like synthetic for my turbo PT109 at 3500 miles.
The PT turbo does 0 to 60 in 6.7 to 7.3 sec depending on what car mag you read. About 2 seconds faster than the nonturbo. It has lots of low end torque. 90% of the peek 245ftlb from 2300 to 4000 rpm. My old Integra reached peek torque of 105ftlb at 4900 rpm. It was peeky but fun to drive.
Not nearly as much turbo lag as the Subaru WRX I test drove. Overall for speed the WRX is one bad boy though. Only wish they mated the PT to a 5 speed A/T and not the 4 speed autostick.
The 5 speed manual came out late. Heard it is a second quicker from 0 to 60 than the auto(close to WRX). The turbo Neon is even faster as it weighs 400lbs less with less drag as well. A WRX beater maybe?

Thanks again

 

[chasgood]

Oh forgot. I have never seen Schaeffer oil in stores. Is it like Amsoil with independent dealers? If I could get them easy in stores I might think about them.
I live in Oklahoma.

 

[sprintman]

Porsche puts 0W40 in every turbo. If they thought 0/5/10W30 was better they'd use it. I know my piddly Mazda turbo made most dyno HP on M1 TS 0W40 for what thats worth. IMO a little more protection when hot is useful.

 

[mormit]

M1 is a good pick. Certainly the best on the shelf oil.

Yeah, Schaeffer's is like Amsoil in that you would have to have it shipped to you. There are site supporters here who can get you either Schaeffer's or Amsoil. Both meet ACEA A3 specs, BTW.

Enjoy the new car!

 

[Andy H]

Chasgood,

Please don't mix your oils, and please don't use dead dinosaurs in your turbo.

Mixing oil formulations will shorten the life of the oil you use - not lengthen it. You can see examples of this all over the oil analysis forum, as well as every manufacturer's site. There's plenty of proof here that shows your custom oil blend won't last as long as either oil will last seperately.

As for petroleum in a hot engine:

I had an 88 VW Jetta 1.6l gas engine with no turbo. Bought it new while in Germany (I really miss the Autobahns!), ran it 12 years and 170 thousand miles. Changed Castrol GTX every 3000 miles. Also used Lubro-Moly MoS2 while in Germany and continued until switching to synthetic oil. My fuel mileage was better with an older engine and synthetic oil than with a petroleum oil with moly.

Oil pressure started dropping in the early 60K mile range, couldn't find anything wrong. Idle pressure was down enough to wake the idiot light at 85K. Bought an oil pump and dropped the pan. The pan had over 1/2 inch of crud which was covered with a layer of fine 'aquarium gravel' sized carbon chunks. The bottom of the engine was varnished to a 'medium roast' coffee color. The oil pump screen was 90% blocked with the carbon granules. Cleaned everything, changed the pump since it was apart, and drove. The pan was off again at 92K and 95K. The sludge was thinner, but the carbon granules were back in force. Switched to Mobil 1 at 95K and never had another bit of trouble.

Here's what I learned: Petroleum oils have no place in hot-running engines if you want to keep the car. Moly won't keep the oil from burning. Volatility is even more critical in these engines as well. I've learned that the cheapest synthetic on the market will outperform the best petroleum or blend.

I spent more money in gaskets, paper towels, cleaners, and an oil pump (and the plastic pick-up tube I broke the tabs off of the first time I pulled it apart!) than I spent on synthetic oil for the rest of the life of the car. Notice I'm not saying I spent more than the difference between Castrol and M1. And I did the work myself -- no $50 per hour at the dealer or other shop. And the car was off the road three times for these cleanings.

Even if you invest in the best oil on the market and change it at your 3K to 5K comfort zone, you'll save more money than your first pan cleaning. Ask the dealer the price of a new turbo and labor to troubshoot and replace it.

Good Luck with your new car!
Andy

Edited typos.

[ January 05, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Andy H ]

 

[Patman]

Andy, during that time you were using those petroleum oils, most of those were 3-4 formulations ago. I remember my 88 Dodge Shadow Turbo specified SF oil, so since then we've gone to SG, SH, SJ, and now SL. Everyone here knows the latest SL formula of dino oils are considerably better, probably just as good as the synthetics of 10 years ago.

Someone doing what you did with a modern SL formula dino would not have the same results, I'm sure things would be drastically different.

So while synthetics are better built oils for sure, don't discount dinos either, as they are vastly better now than ever.

[ January 05, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[TooSlick]

Chasgood,

Since you live in OK, I'd also look for "Synergyn" at local retail outlets or speed shops ....Seems to be an excellent product and they make a 3w-30 that would be my choice for this application.

They are @ if you want to check them out, or you can just ask Dragboat ....I think the 3w-30 is $64.00 for a 12 quart case.

TooSlick

[ January 06, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[BLACK98SLS]

USE MOBIL1!!!!! as owner of a buick grand national mobil 1 is the only oil i used after my break in period.the turbo has no problems 86,*** miles.being a turbo the motor is under more stress then normal so i change the oil every 3000 miles.trust me it is worth it!!

 

[darrenc]

If you look up oil in your yellow pages, you might find a Schaeffer's dealer near you. Many truckers and industrial folks use their products. I have no problem finding their products here in Fresno. Most truck stops in our are have a reasonable supply of their specialty products (Neutra, 132, Citrol, etc.).

BTW, I’m testing our the Schaeffer’s Series 7000 10W-30 in my turbo Volvo. I will compare the results (analysis) with a prior run with Amsoil 10W-30.

I paid about $35 for a case of the Schaeffer’s.

 

[chasgood]

Surfing the net I came across this. A little food for thought on oil change interval.

http://www.electricbbs.com/servicing/servicing.html