What oil for racing Yamaha "2008" R6

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Hi All.

I dont know if there is somebody on the forum with a lot of knowledge in road racing motorcycles? Im kinda new with this and shall give a little explanation of what we plan to do.

We race a Yamaha R6 out of 2008, with extended radiator for better water cooling.

This are 6 sessions, of 20 minutes every 2 hours, so it will cool down, and then go to plus minus 16000 RPM ( programmed ECU )

I think, this will ask for a special oil, and im looking for advice in this.

Mostly, we race in summer time, outside temperature +32 celcius ( 89,6 Fahrenheit )

In the manual, it states: API SG or higher, JASO MA .

When i look at the SEA diagram, the 10w-50 will go to the highest (outside) temperature, makes that the best choice?

Here in The Netherlands, this oil is common used:

Castrol Power1 Racing 4T 10W50

I hope everybody with the knowledge can give his opinion , that will help me with my choice for a great oil :)




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Engine type:4 cylinders, 4-stroke, Inline
Displacement:599 cc (36.6 cubic inches)
Bore × stroke:67 mm × 42.5 mm (oversquare - shortstroke)
Cooling system:Water cooled
Power:124.68 HP (91.7 kW) @ 14500 rpm (Ram-air)
Torque:69.1 Nm (7.05 kg-m) @ 11000 rpm (Ram-air)
Valve train:DOHC, variable
Valves per cylinder:4
Sparks per cylinder:1
Fuel supply system:Fuel injection
Ignition type:Digital CDI
Funnel diameter:38 mm
Compression:13.1:1
Engine mounting:Transverse
Lubrication system:Wet sump
Gear box:Manual 6-speed
Clutch:Wet, slipper, cable operated
Final drive:Chain
Spark plug pipe type:NGK, CR9EK
Motor oil:Synthetic, 20W/40
 
i do not like any of the castrol products (with one exception)

do you have an oil sponsor? you may want to look into that.

i dont like 10w50s either...requires too much vii's

6x20min is 120min or 2hrs...at 100mph thats 200mi ... that is all the more your oil has to hold up for. but it needs to do an fantastic job for the entire 200mi.

your summer temps are barely warmer than my winter temps...last week it was 79F here. today to be a balmy 69-70F out.

Shell Ultra Advanced Helix line (by RDS from your country) or Motul Racing (like 7100 4t 10w40 or 10w50) or the Maxima line as well.
i would also look at straight weight sae30 or sae40 depending on your ambient startup temps.

all depends on your budget (for both oil and parts)

steve
 
i do not like any of the castrol products (with one exception)

do you have an oil sponsor? you may want to look into that.

i dont like 10w50s either...requires too much vii's

6x20min is 120min or 2hrs...at 100mph thats 200mi ... that is all the more your oil has to hold up for. but it needs to do an fantastic job for the entire 200mi.

your summer temps are barely warmer than my winter temps...last week it was 79F here. today to be a balmy 69-70F out.

Shell Ultra Advanced Helix line (by RDS from your country) or Motul Racing (like 7100 4t 10w40 or 10w50) or the Maxima line as well.
i would also look at straight weight sae30 or sae40 depending on your ambient startup temps.

all depends on your budget (for both oil and parts)

steve
Thanks for the quick answer.

+32 celcius is a hot day out of here. At winter were doing 36 Fahrenheit day average.

I only race in summer. It's for hobby, no sponsor :(



The castrol also has a Castrol Power1 Racing 4T.

Why is the castrol a bad oil compared to for example motul?
 

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in all of my tests the castrol products just do not hold up.
in all but the 1 case they (castrol products) lost at least 1 grade and twice they lost 2 grades (going from 20w50 down to 30wt)
i race a yz250f - which is 1/4th of an R1. and have since dec15 2000. im on my 3rd.
i have done 94 uoa tests on my bikes.

i would like to direct you towards the Shell Advance Ultra, AX7, AX5 or AX3 lines in the 15w40 or 15w50 or 20w40 weights
 
I'd go with a 20W-50 in that hot climate. Probably less shearing than the 10W-50.
 
I run Motul 300V 4T 15w50 in our four sportbikes. They've all seen track time. Some to race, some just trackdays.

R6 is a great track bike.
 
I'd go with a 20W-50 in that hot climate. Probably less shearing than the 10W-50.

Thanks for all the answers. An additional question. I have a friend who has some closed bottles of Motul 300V for sale. He bought in March 2020.

How long can you store a closed bottle of engine oil?
 
Thanks for all the answers. An additional question. I have a friend who has some closed bottles of Motul 300V for sale. He bought in March 2020.

How long can you store a closed bottle of engine oil?
Mobil says 5 years, so I'd think any bottle of new motor oil is probably good for that long. Certainly oil bought new in March of 2020 is still good.
 
surely you are not talking about the guy whose temps dont even hit 90f
Yes I am ... he's racing the bike full out on a track in the summer time. His manual says 20W-50 is fine between 10C to 45C.
 
Hiya Zilk... I have accumulative about 50 years of racing knowledge...

Savoy racers choose 30w because it gives the right flow at the normal engine operating
temperature of 212ºF and that would be the viscosity of 10 at operating temps... so that
means for every 1000 rpms increase your oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a 30w
flows more oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings
which carries away more heat and you're not wasting HP just pumping oil through the blow
off valve...

30 Grade psi
1000 10
2000 20
3000 30
4000 40
5000 50
6000 60
7000 70
8000 80
9000 90
10000 99
11000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve

40 Grade psi
1000 12
2000 24
3000 36
4000 48
5000 72
6000 84
7000 96
8000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99

50 Grade psi
1000 15
2000 30
3000 45
4000 60
5000 75
6000 90
7000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
8000 99
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99

I went to trouble to installed a digital oil pressure gauge on MrRC45
to know... 30 Grade at 8000 rpms 82 Psi close enough to perfect...

MrRC45Oil85Psi.jpg


RC45Coolant203FOil10.jpg



The same 30 Grade at 203F Oil flowing 10 psi perfect


The choice is yours, but choosing a 30 Grade over a 50 grade is smarter because it will:

1)increase 3 to 5 HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...

Any one of 30w 100% synthetic motorcycle specific oils will meet
and exceed both your racing and mileage expectations...

Quote 540Rat
SECTION 2 – MOTOR OIL VISCOSITY SELECTION

THE BENEFITS OF USING THINNER OIL:

• Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating
critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can.
Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can
reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help
reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

• The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much
less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to
thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow
unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient
temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more
important this becomes.

• Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And
oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil
pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker
oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that
only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is
NOT what we are after.

• The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil
pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a
higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil
pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering.

• The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every
1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more
pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It
is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at
least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of
running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all
the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining
sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is
preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo.
Because oil “flow” is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil
pressure.

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components.
Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly
water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine
components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run
thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps. For
example: Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings are lubricated
by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these
parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to this
interface. The parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic
liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in between
the spinning parts. As long as sufficient oil is supplied, no wear can
occur. In addition to this, the flow of oil through the bearings is
what cools them.

Quote Gmtech94

When I raced we were sponsored by an oil company and helped with the
research of their product .The thought at the time was to run 20w50
race oil to provide for the best lubrication under racing conditions
hence no oil related failures . After many races and a lot of real
data research the conclusion was in this case to run a 10w30 oil as it
provided better lubrication and less engine wear over a long period of
time ,remember endurance racing in 24 and 30 hour races . Although we
never had an engine failure due to oil properties we did have a lot of
feedback on engine wear as well as transmission and clutch wear . I
have to say we did abuse these bikes on occasion with spinning the
back wheel to turn the bike as well as the occasional fall .The
ignition was a weak link but I could change out the pulsers in about
17 seconds once the bike was in the pits . In conclusion 10w30 ran
cooler and did not break down as much as the thicker oils did.

Oil drag is real...
full-45634-35309-oiltubeviscositytest.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hiya Zilk... I have accumulative about 50 years of racing knowledge...

Savoy racers choose 30w because it gives the right flow at the normal engine operating
temperature of 212ºF and that would be the viscosity of 10 at operating temps...
Oil pressure and parts lubrication are not one in the same. At 212F the PD oil pump is going to supply the same oil volume because the pump won't be in pressure relief. Viscosity matters when it comes to keeping moving parts adequately separated to prevent/mitigate metal-to-metal contact. If you could ensure the oil temperature never got above 212F while racing WOT for an hour on the track then it might be OK to run a 30 weight ... otherwise, not so much if the oil temperature gets over 250+F.
 
Royal Purple HPS 5-30 would be my recommendation. Yes, I've raced it in wet clutch Yamaha motors for many years.

I'm assuming you change the oil every race.
 
I run Motul 300V 4T 15w50 in our four sportbikes. They've all seen track time. Some to race, some just trackdays.

R6 is a great track bike.

THIS^^^^ 50W More film strength at higher RPM's, and your clutch and gears will like it more also.

Motul 300V 4T 15w50 what I used after trying a few others. I raced in hi heat alot.
 
THIS^^^^50W More film strength at higher RPM's, and your clutch and gears will like it more also.

Motul 300V 4T 15w50 what I used after trying a few others. I raced in hi heat alot.
The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.


Quote 540Rat
VISCOSITY vs WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY COMPARISON:

20 wt oils rank between number 2 and 220

30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 233

40 wt oils rank between number 6 and 219

50 wt oils rank between number 39 and 228

60 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 101

70 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 177

So, as you can see, this is objective truth that viscosity does NOT
determine an oil’s wear protection capability, even though many people
mistakenly believe it does. As mentioned above, an oil’s wear
protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive
package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive
package, which contains the critical extreme pressure anti-wear
components. And the additive package has nothing to do with viscosity.
 
The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.
Blackstone knows nothing about tribology.

Quote 540Rat

So, as you can see, this is objective truth that viscosity does NOT
determine an oil’s wear protection capability, even though many people
mistakenly believe it does. As mentioned above, an oil’s wear
protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive
package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive
package, which contains the critical extreme pressure anti-wear
components. And the additive package has nothing to do with viscosity.
540Rat knows nothing about tribology either. He's talking only about "film strength" which is AW/AF additives that mitigate wear AFTER there is metal-to-metal contact. Viscosity is the first line of protection from preventing metal-to metal contact. There is a difference between "film thickness" (MOFT) and "film strength". Use a too low viscosity and you will get more metal-to-metal contact, then it's the AW/AF additives that must do the wear protection. Why go so low that there is no headroom (MOFT) to protect the moving parts?

Read this Machinery Lubrication article: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

"Film strength can be described as the lubricant’s ability to lessen the effects of friction and control wear by means other than the film thickness. As mentioned, the viscosity is the primary contributor to film thickness during hydrodynamic and elastohydrodynamic lubrication. When the base oil viscosity is insufficient to overcome metal-to-metal surface contact, the base oil and additive chemistry work together to create a surface protection mechanism."
 
16,000rpm's... Try some 0W20 next time out at the track. I will stick with the recommended 15W50, ester base oil. The bikes I used to ride spec'd 15W50 and for the RPM's these motors turn now days there is very little to argue over. I would be most comfortable with a nice lubricating cushion of 50W oil, known as the hydrodynamic wedge. 10W30 is not going to make me comfy at all!

These are "Shared" sump motors, so the motor oil is shared with the transmission and the clutch. These Manufacture's are not restricted to "Cafe" They do a lot of R&D, and they are not trying to slow them down at all. Protection is what they have in mind.

Please don't think I'm against thinner oils, I have 0W20 in 4 of my auto's spec'd for 0W20 and 1 of them has 245K.
 
The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.


Quote 540Rat
VISCOSITY vs WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY COMPARISON:

20 wt oils rank between number 2 and 220

30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 233

40 wt oils rank between number 6 and 219

50 wt oils rank between number 39 and 228

60 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 101

70 wt oil, the only one tested, ranked number 177

So, as you can see, this is objective truth that viscosity does NOT
determine an oil’s wear protection capability, even though many people
mistakenly believe it does. As mentioned above, an oil’s wear
protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive
package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive
package, which contains the critical extreme pressure anti-wear
components. And the additive package has nothing to do with viscosity.


Thanks all for each opinion. A lot of the fellow Dutch racers with Yamaha R6 & R1 use Motul 300v or Yamalube 10W 40.

More HP and lower temp with a 10w-30 sounds like music in my ears, but i am a little afraid how the transmission and clutch will react.

In the documents Yamaha says that the 10w 30 will do ok till an outside temp of +20 Celcius. While im racing it at +32 Celcius at a hot summer day. Dont know if they meassure at standing still, or with driving wind at 160 km/h hour average ( 100 Mph )

Are you really sure that the 10w-30 will not damage anything, like the gear bearings or clutch?

I only want to change do oil once a year after 10 trackdays, thats 1800km per year.

Here in the netherlands, i can find Lucas 10w - 30 Synthetic API SM / JASO MA-2 ACEA A3.

This matches the Yamaha spec as far as i see.

What do you guys think of LUCAS oil in the US ?
 

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