What oil for BMW 320si -06 - steel liners upgrade?

[JanEL]

A bit long. But hope someone can help

Originally the car has alu liners. And it has a notorious reputation to crack in the cylinder liners and have total engine failure before 50000miles. Some are on their third engine

My car had the same problem at 36000 miles.
The new block BMW provides is now improved with steel liners instead (new block with krankshaft, rods, pistons, and pistonrings). And that is what I have just installed. Hopefully the notorious liner cracking problem is cured.
But BMW don’t reply back on what oil they recommend for the new upgraded engine they sell. Local BMW shop only say they fill 0W-30 (BMW LL-04 spec.) on every car. Both diesel and gasoline. And on older NA M-cars they fill 10W-60.

I don’t know if I like the new LL-04 oils. They perform well it looks like. But they also have saps and specs towards diesels and not so hard on the cat. And make them in some cases not superior to the LL-01 oils?
To me it seems like it’s better to go for LL-01 oil in my car?


The first miles I have used AMSoil break-in-oil. But what to use after the initial break in?

Specs:
-BMW 320si 2006
-Engine code: N45B20S (Yes, it’s an S in the end. Normally indicating it’s an M-car engine...)
Engine built specific for the WTCC races. 2600 road legal cars were sold to meet the homologation requirements to compete. But engine is far from that tuned as the real WTCC engine.
Engine was produced at the same place as they produce BMW Formula1 engines. And it’s a close tolerance engine.
-Car is used in Norway with cold winters.
-Sometime it may find its way to track days. And it will hit the rev limit on street also. I characterize my driving between moderate to hard 10% of the time. The rest 90% are half city traffic and half long distance drive (countryside and highway).
-Oil change about every 6-10000 miles.
-Run on 98 octane.

Oil spec in manual: LL-01 or LL-01FE 5W-30 or 5W-40. (More specific according to oilspecifications.org http://www.oilspecifications.org/bmw.php this means: BMW Longlife-01
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Product meets ACEA A3/B3 and API: SJ/CD EC-II.)

When I look in the WTCC parts catalog I see that they recommend the Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. But that engine only sees track use...and tuned to 310bhp...)


I have looked at the following oils:
-Penrite 10tenths Premium 0W-50 (0W-40 viscosity)(Non LL-01 approval)
Looking real good. But it only has BMW LL-98 rating. And my engine is under warranty for next 5 years. But it does have ACEA A3/B3 that equals to LL-01. And it has API SN/CF that surpasses LL-01? Did they not pay BMW to get it upgraded to LL-01, or do I miss something?
-Penrite HPR5 5W-40 LL-01
-Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 LL-01 (Back when LL-01 was the standard. Pennzoil platinum Euro 5W-30 seems to be listed by BMW to be approved option.)
-Valvoline SynPower (not extreme) 5W-40 LL-01
-Agip/Eni i-Sint 5W-40 LL-01
-AMSoil European 5W-40 LL-01

Also had a look at the following for consideration. But did not look as good as the abow:

-Purple API 5W-40 (ACEA A3/B3-04)
-Castrol Magnatec 5W-40 LL-01
-Castrol Edge 0W-40 LL-01
-Redline 5W-40 LL-01
-Gulf Formula GX 5W-40 LL-01
-Gulf 0W-40 Formula GX LL-01
-Mobil1 new life 0W-40 LL-01
-Liquid Molly Leichtlauf high tec 5W-40 LL-01

I’m thinking Castrol Edge 0W-40 LL-01 for the first 6-10000miles after the breake-in-oil. Then
Penrite HPR5 5W-40 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 LL-01 until warranty period is out.
Then after that Penrite 10tenths Premium 0W-50. If not in the meantime a new oil has emerged.

Please give inputs on my thoughts. Anything I need to reconsider? Should I go for a LL-04 instead? 0W-30 oil? Then what about track days? Switch to the Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil M-car oil for the track day?
I am confused

 

[19jacobob93]

Welcome

Didn't know Penrite was available outside of Aus but I can vouch for it as everybody uses nothing but Penrite in high performance vehicles and for track days down here. I haven't used it personally because it's a bit overkill for my peasant vehicles! haha
I can't really help with the rest though!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I would stay with LL04. You're using LL04 because you have ultra low sulphur gasoline (ULSG) so you won't really benefit from using an LL01. I know you have an SI but it's still not under the same heat as the newer turbo 4 cylinder engines and they run LL04 in western Europe.

I wouldn't use 10w60 at the track. Maybe a LL04 5w40 assuming your oil pressure is good.

Did you know that the new M3/M4 uses 0w30?

 

[riggaz]

Mate, you're overthinking it.

The problem with the engine was with components and not oil so the recommended oil in the manual is still valid.

(Europe
Engine oil () BMW Longlife-04 SAE 0W-30, 0w-40, 5w-30, 5w-40 All temperatures


(Worldwide
Engine oil BMW Longlife-01 SAE 0W-30, 0w-40, 5w-30, 5w-40 All temperatures
Engine oil BMW Longlife-01 FE SAE 0W-30 All temperatures
Engine oil ACEA A3 SAE 0W-40, 5w-30, 5w-40 All temperatures
Engine oil ACEA A1 SAE 0W-30 All temperatures


10w-60 and 0w-50 are not on the list of recommended viscosities for the 320Si so go with the 0w-40 or 5w-40 to give you the track day performance. If you really want to be sure install an oil pressure gauge and make sure you are in the right operating range.

Oil pressure (At idle speed) > 1.5 (bar/rpm)
Oil pressure (Engine at operating temperature) 2.2-3.0 / 2200-3500 (bar/rpm)

 

[JanEL]

19jacobob93, yes Penrite is hard to find. No sellers in Norway. Have to order from UK. But Oil is expensive in stores her. So no problem order online and pay the shipment/VAT.

BMWTurboDzl, Yes I know that the new M-cars use LL-04 0W-30. But they are turbos. And that is one of the features LL-04 is design for. It’s also designed for diesels. And low emission.
None of the above my car has...

riggaz, installing an oil pressure and temp gauge is on the wish list.
Where did you find the (Europe and (Worldwide list?

But oil listed in manuals I suspect are cost effective oil that do the job to some extent. But not necessarily do the best job?
I don’t care that much what oil service cost if I know I can have a better product in my engine.
Manufactures also don’t take to consideration in the design that the engine might be used 30+ years/200.000miles in to the future. If they still going strong they are proud of it in an adverting sense of way. I dont Think they design it to be...
Cannot optimized oil also help push this limit?

 

[bimmerdriver]

Not to trying to start a debate, but M engines have the S at the front, not at the end (e.g., S54, S62). While your engine was built for WTCC homologation, there never was an M version of it.

Sorry to hear you're having this problem. I hadn't heard about this issue with these engines until I read your post. I hope you get the car back on the road.

 

[JanEL]

Yup, it runs great again. But I still try to find out what to put in it to make it work for as many years as possible

I don’t think you start anything by saying it’s not an M-engine. Because it’s not. But it is designed from the same principal as the M-engines. And it is closer to an M/race-engine then to the other regular engines. And I guess that’s why they put an S in the engine code.
This engine is also pretty dull on low revs. (Aka where the normal engines are design to operate and preform best) It needs to be revved hard to show what it’s good for.

That is also why I suspect that today’s oil supplied for BMW diesel and turbo that have a certain emission level to obtain not necessarily are the optimal to use in my engine.

 

[bimmerdriver]

Originally Posted By: JanEL
Yup, it runs great again. But I still try to find out what to put in it to make it work for as many years as possible

I don’t think you start anything by saying it’s not an M-engine. Because it’s not. But it is designed from the same principal as the M-engines. And it is closer to an M/race-engine then to the other regular engines. And I guess that’s why they put an S in the engine code.
This engine is also pretty dull on low revs. (Aka where the normal engines are design to operate and preform best) It needs to be revved hard to show what it’s good for.

That is also why I suspect that today’s oil supplied for BMW diesel and turbo that have a certain emission level to obtain not necessarily are the optimal to use in my engine.

Glad your car is on the road again.

No doubt the engine is unique. I did a quick, but not exhaustive search of BMW engine codes and I found only one other engine that had an S suffix. It's the N57S, which is the triple turbocharger M diesel engine. This engine is yet another example of the best European technology that didn't make it over to North America. It's a torque monster.

 

[JanEL]

If an oil has ACEA A3/B3 and API SN/CF. Why just BMW LL-98 rating on it?
Do not ACEA A3/B3 equal LL-01? And API SN/CF surpasses LL-01?

Do they have to pay BMW to upgrade the BMW spec marking? And they just don't want to do that. Or do I miss something?

 

[bimmerdriver]

Originally Posted By: JanEL
If an oil has ACEA A3/B3 and API SN/CF. Why just BMW LL-98 rating on it?
Do not ACEA A3/B3 equal LL-01? And API SN/CF surpasses LL-01?

Do they have to pay BMW to upgrade the BMW spec marking? And they just don't want to do that. Or do I miss something?

I'm sure others here have more direct knowledge, but someone would need to pay for the testing that would be required for BMW to grant an oil manufacturer the right to claim their oil meets the standard, at a minimum. I doubt it's an inexpensive or easy process.

 

[weasley]

Precisely that. BMW LL-01 requires ACEA A3/B4 as a starting point, but then adds BMW-specific additional tests. This goes for pretty much all OEM specs - IIRC none are just a simple ACEA/API rebrand (although not all require OEM registration - some are "self-certifying").

 

[riggaz]

I'd go for the LL01 5w-40 or 0w-40 personally

LL04 is a low ash oil and can only be used in Europe because of our ultra low sulphur fuels

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: riggaz
LL04 is a low ash oil and can only be used in Europe because of our ultra low sulphur fuels


Strictly speaking, LL-04 is a mid-ash oil (ACEA C3-type).

 

[riggaz]

Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: riggaz
LL04 is a low ash oil and can only be used in Europe because of our ultra low sulphur fuels


Strictly speaking, LL-04 is a mid-ash oil (ACEA C3-type).


Strictly speaking ACEA C3 is a mid saps oil.