What makes some engines "hard" on oil?

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Why are some engine, e.g.late 90's Toyotas hard on oil while others, e.g. current generation 3.8l Buicks easy on oil?

Does it have to do with operating temperatures or the efficiency of the filter system?
 
I'd suggeest it has to do with the design of the surfaces that are to be lubricated. Diesels that use cam-lobe driven unit injectors tend to extert enormous stresses on lubricated surfaces, which in turn, causes the oil to shear. Bearing loadings can also vary as a function of the bearing design. Also smaller engines will tend to need to run hotter to achieve equivilant power to a larger engine, which in turn places additional stress on a lubricant. Conversely, larger engines tend to produce more blowby simply because they have more cylinders and are built to less stringent tolerances.

Some engines have very efficient cooling systems, with oil coolers and oil/water heat exchangers, while others do not. I'd personally guess that full-flow filtration actually has very little to do with how well the oil stands up.
 
From what I've read I think Toyota made a change in the coolant passages to make the engines run hotter for better emissions. PCV valves may have also been undersized. Some have mentioned something like 30F hotter cylinder head temps after the change. I don't think filtration has anything to do with it, though oil quantity might. Probably many other factors also....
 
I think that the toyota sludgemonster engines use gear driven cam, and this puts a great deal of stress on the oil.
dunno.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
I think that the toyota sludgemonster engines use gear driven cam, and this puts a great deal of stress on the oil.
dunno.gif


Why?

Because of friction(heat)?
 
Almost all if not all of the new Toyota engines use a gear chain cam drive system. And alot of the older ones use a gear system with a belt. And those engines are not classified as a sludge master.
 
Cooling system, heat, coking and factory oci thats to long for engine design with dino all contribute to the demise.


Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner,2.7 liter, 4 cylinder, Mobil1 5w30 ODO 11750
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner,3.0 liter,6 cylinder, Mobil1 10w30 ODO 92870
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer
 
Dont forget stuff like turbos put extra load on the oil. Today's ball bearing and water cooled turbos dont stress the oil nowhere near as the oil cooled/bush bearing turbos of the past however.
 
I think my Nissan Sentra with a 3.4 quart capacity is hard on oil. Dual overhead cam, variable valve timing, and high rpms to get the best torque may be factors. This engine cooks gaskets. It generates a lot of heat. Seems like Nissan and Toyota are similar. They are pushing to get the maximum efficiency and power out of the minimum size.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Amkeer:
Cooling system, heat, coking and factory oci thats to long for engine design with dino all contribute to the demise.



Don't forget to add sump capacity too. By simply increasing the oil capacity from 4 quarts to 5 quarts, you can reduce the overall stress on the oil quite a bit (which makes me wonder why so many car makers continue to use such small capacities, especially when they are trying to go for longer OCIs in their owner's manuals)
 
My Ford 4.9L (300 cid) straight six has gear driven camshaft and is not know as a sludge monster (although mine seems to have some).

Frank at Auto Rx explained (IIRC) to me that some engines were designed with pool areas in the head to hold oil after shutdown so that it would be readily available to the top end on start up. He said in many cases this results in those oil pools cooking after the hot engine is shut down and thus forming sludge. Makes sense to me especially in light of the posts above re hotter running and/or poorly cooled heads.
 
offtopic.gif
I know this is OT but does anyone know exactly which Toyota engines (and what years) are sludge-monsters. For instance is the 1.8 in a 99' Corolla known to be one.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:


Frank at Auto Rx explained (IIRC) to me that some engines were designed with pool areas in the head to hold oil after shutdown so that it would be readily available to the top end on start up. He said in many cases this results in those oil pools cooking after the hot engine is shut down and thus forming sludge. Makes sense to me especially in light of the posts above re hotter running and/or poorly cooled heads.


Paul, this is a very interesting subject that you bring up. I had a classmate from Saudi Arabia in my Undergrad days, and he once mentioned that back home, it was normal for them to subject every automobile engine to a "warm down" period after every run. This was because of extreme hot weather. 100 deg F, 110 deg F would not be an especially hot day over there. We asked: "do you guys warm down only the Turbo engines to prevent coking?" He replied: "No. Even normal aspirated engines are always warmed down 10-15 minutes before shutting off. Otherwise the engine top end would coke up completely."

I guess this is something for the "water cooled takes care of all heat issues" Crowd.
 
Doesnt make sense. At idle when the ambient temps are hot, the coolant temps will be at their highest due to slow coolant movement, not to mention slow oil flow. If anything the temps of the heads will be even higher. Sounds like a questionable practice to me.
 
Experiment, experiment! Try any good name brand both conventional and synthetic if you have the money in budget. I did this with my brother1990's model Toyota 4x4 4 cylinder engine and Castrol seemed to pay off and so did Kendall at the time. The Pennzoil did not leave sludge but, it did consume it. I have a 1996 Neon (I know the Pinto of the 90's) that I experimented with. It did pretty good on anything I put into it except Royal Purple 5w-30 which really surprised me - It ate 1 quart every 1,000 miles. Turned out it was sneeking past seals. I still hold Royal Purple in high regard and would recommend it to anyone. Just wasn't compatable with my seals in that weight, maybe 10w-30 would have been a better choice.
 
Olympic did an oil analysis on XD3 0-30 syn oil by Esso/Mobil on his 1.8L toyota engine in his Vibe. The Vibe is used on hard miles as taxi service, the analysis is in the gas engine analysis forum. That Toyota engine would have seen a lot of idling and hard miles and I believe analysis was done in reasonable warm weather in the fall. Worth a read.

Cyprs
 
quote:

Originally posted by pbm:
offtopic.gif
I know this is OT but does anyone know exactly which Toyota engines (and what years) are sludge-monsters. For instance is the 1.8 in a 99' Corolla known to be one.


The 1.8L 1ZZ-FE was never considered to have sludge problems.
 
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