What makes a car American made

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My 2018 4Runner says 100% made in Japan. Call me a sellout, I like it that way.
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I would of have interpreted your comment as hysteria years ago, but there is some truth to it. With the advent of nuclear weapons, ware fare has changed. Bleeding your opponents economy dry is a subversive, effective, and politically correct way to defeat an opponent. Gone are the days when an American man could provide for his wife and 4 kids on a blue collar job. The American standard of living has been going down for a long time. What’s to blame? Lots of factors, but the global landscape has made competition between nations a very real battlefield of economies. But I guess that’s not really relevant is it? OP take a look here.

http://www.americanautocouncil.org/us-economic-contributions

Part origins only make up a small part of what makes a car “American”.
 
Originally Posted By: Kurtatron
Gone are the days when an American man could provide for his wife and 4 kids on a blue collar job.


This is an unfortunate sad truth. Growing up I had friends who only the father worked at a good blue collar job like a factory,etc,mom was a stay at home mom,and they lived in 3000+ sq ft. homes,put their kids through private schools,and were members of the country club.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Every debate revolves about buying. Buy, buy buy and buy. Yet less and less well paying jobs are staying here. The global economy is designed to decline the American standard of living. It is specifically targeted at americans, period.

Nah dude our economy is in the tank while theirs is growing. It's targetted anywhere the standard of living is high and the cost of living is low.
 
Where is the production line? What nation's residents final assemble the vehicle? That is, and always has been, the factor. P-51 Mustangs are not non-American planes just because they used British Rolls Royce Merlin engine, or turboprop light aircraft that use the world's most numerous and successful small turbine are not all Canadian just because all the PT6xx engines in the world are made in Montreal. China isn't threatening BMW's 500,000 annual exports from their US plants because they consider them to be German made automobiles.

The rules are different for automobiles.

For most products broadly speaking a product is "Made in America" if 51% of the value added comes from US plants or workers. That means, basically, that if the BILL of Materials (BoM) which includes all parts costs, in house manufacturing and assembly, domestic sourced third party parts and assembly (which themselves must meet the standard to be considered domestic) is $500 then at least $255 of that BoM must be domestic inputs.

With autos it is either NAFTA-compliant or NAFTA-non compliant, even if assembled in North America, depending on the BoM Value-Added inputs. But for the most part autos are manufactured by third party companies contracting to the OEM and then assembled in an OEM owned or controlled assembly plant. The majority of third party suppliers are North American manufacturers; eg Magna International, which makes the interior panels and in some cases entire interiors for domestic brands. Or the Ford GT, which is hand made entirely by a specialty manufacturer in Canada with roots in F1 (brakes and suspension). Ford doesn't touch one unless someone from Ford travels to a Detroit dealer showroom from Dearborn to touch it.
 
In WW2 those RR Merlin were produced under licence by PACKARD right here in Detroit. What's happening in US AUTO Industries lot of WORKERS are part timers or temps ,you will be lucky to find some Manufacuturer to have more than 45% full time Workers .You want cheap Labour thats what you get .
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Kurtatron
Gone are the days when an American man could provide for his wife and 4 kids on a blue collar job.


This is an unfortunate sad truth. Growing up I had friends who only the father worked at a good blue collar job like a factory,etc,mom was a stay at home mom,and they lived in 3000+ sq ft. homes,put their kids through private schools,and were members of the country club.


The reality is education whether technical 2 year degree or 4 year college degree is now required to produce the complex stuff we have now and a filter for such jobs in many cases. Unfortunately many Americans did not take advantage of those excellent wages and choose not to educate/reinvent themselves into next careers when times were good. They stick around in dead areas simply complaining no jobs for me and they pay too low.

Two years ago personally I got paid 32 hours/week to develop cloud software but really ended up working 45 hours to learn on job. My fellow workers not willing to make sacrifice all barely work now and are basically not employable as they only know dead technology and support the legacy stuff scraping 5-10hrs/week.

This quote is so applicable to why people get stuck in dead careers and don't reinvent themselves:
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Where is the production line? What nation's residents final assemble the vehicle? That is, and always has been, the factor.

Partly true. As an engineer myself, I view the intellectual property (IP) creation on equal grounds with the assembly workers. IOTW, where is the engineering done? Of course both kinds of jobs, white AND blue collar, a mix, is best in our country.

Like somebody said above about the Apple jobs in Silicon Valley vs. the Chinese low-wage assembly jobs the iPhone creates, the quality, pay, and work environment a revenue stream generates is important.
 
Originally Posted By: NYEngineer
In 2009 my wife and I both bought new cars. She got a Kia Sorento and I got a Chevy Suburban. In 2009, the Kia Sorento was the most American made vehicle. I called BS on that though because the money went overseas.


That doesn't matter one bit. Where is the assembly plant? KIA invested HERE not in ROK.

Where are most parts made? Hopefully here at many satellite auto parts suppliers.

Where are the robotics, engineers , control systems, an other infrastructure sourced?

Then think about the massive amount of deliveries.

How bout Restaurant, Bars, Stores, Housing.


There is an exponential business and employment bloom the insinuates around a large manufacturing facility such that THIS is what matters.
 
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
This is an unfortunate sad truth. Growing up I had friends who only the father worked at a good blue collar job like a factory,etc,mom was a stay at home mom,and they lived in 3000+ sq ft. homes,put their kids through private schools,and were members of the country club.

I hope you are sarcastic because that was never the case. 3000+ sq ft houses are something quite new.
 
Our company makes automotive products. Let me pick an example of how difficult it is to determine foreign content.

One of our products is machined in the USA using steel from Japan that is forged in Korea. Our company is Swedish. So is the product Japanese, Korean, Swedish, or American? It has "made in USA" stamped on it.

What I can tell you is the folk that assess a vehicle for % American content don't dig that deep. Each part on a vehicle has much the same story.

Another story -- when I was junior engineer I had the opportunity to visit a Chrysler production plant. I saw very expensive automated machinery that was imported from countries such as Germany. This was during Iaccoca's "Buy American" campaign on TV. I didn't think much of his campaign after that.

Anyone who takes an attitude over a vehicle being foreign or American is easily misguided.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Another story -- when I was junior engineer I had the opportunity to visit a Chrysler production plant. I saw very expensive automated machinery that was imported from countries such as Germany. This was during Iaccoca's "Buy American" campaign on TV. I didn't think much of his campaign after that.
Me too. The K-Car plant in St. Louis, 1981, had robotic welders, IIRC, from a tour I took back then.

You mentioned German robots. Today, Tesla is using boatloads of Kuka (German) robots, so I wonder if American robotics companies are keeping pace.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Every debate revolves about buying. Buy, buy buy and buy. Yet less and less well paying jobs are staying here. The global economy is designed to decline the American standard of living. It is specifically targeted at americans, period.


Lots of good paying jobs still in the USA. But that person needs an education and they'll have lots of opportunity.
 
If I'm not mistaken, there are "rules" created by the US gov't (Federal Trade Commission) that make these determinations as to how "American" anything is. Taking hundreds or thousands of Chinese-made parts and putting them together in a factory in Anytown, USA does NOT qualify as "Made in USA". They have to say "assembled in the USA" or "Made in the US with imported parts".

The "cost" of the product is a primary factor in making determinations too. So, if the "steel" is sourced from China, it can be a factor but it depends on the cost of the raw steel.

Lastly, at the end of the day, a company can lie about this ... unless or until they are caught. The FTC doesn't pre-approve company's claims and I doubt they actively audit goods. They only investigate if prompted to.
 
Originally Posted By: dippschtick
My 2018 4Runner says 100% made in Japan. Call me a sellout, I like it that way.
smile.gif



That's cool until your job goes away and you have no way of paying for that Toyota. FWIW I buy from US manufacturers and try to get something with a decent domestic content as well as union made here, but sometimes I realize that's not possible. I certainly don't like that, but we are in a "global" economy like it or not.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Every debate revolves about buying. Buy, buy buy and buy. Yet less and less well paying jobs are staying here. The global economy is designed to decline the American standard of living. It is specifically targeted at americans, period.


Lots of good paying jobs still in the USA. But that person needs an education and they'll have lots of opportunity.


Still and that number is shrinking, well maybe not recently, but over the long haul it has been and I dont see it reversing this trend. Will people start waking up once their job is gone, despite their education?

Have you seen eastern European countries with their economies and industries destroyed full of over-educated for the job at hand office clerks, secretaries, cooks, waiters etc. etc.? I have, and it's not pretty with high unemployment rates.

There are all kind of people out there, some are more suited for education than others, some are good with their hands, some with a pencil, the job market has to reflect that.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
This is an unfortunate sad truth. Growing up I had friends who only the father worked at a good blue collar job like a factory,etc,mom was a stay at home mom,and they lived in 3000+ sq ft. homes,put their kids through private schools,and were members of the country club.

I hope you are sarcastic because that was never the case. 3000+ sq ft houses are something quite new.


Serious as a heart attack. My parents' neighborhood was made up of mid century modern houses (mid-late 1950s era),all 3000-3500 sq ft. My parents' house was built in 1954 and was a little over 3500 sq ft.

Like they say,"Everything's bigger in Texas!"
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Kurtatron
Gone are the days when an American man could provide for his wife and 4 kids on a blue collar job.


This is an unfortunate sad truth. Growing up I had friends who only the father worked at a good blue collar job like a factory,etc,mom was a stay at home mom,and they lived in 3000+ sq ft. homes,put their kids through private schools,and were members of the country club.


Sounds like easy money. A bit too easy, maybe? How could that kind of conditions last in the long term? I think it was a bubble.

The world has changed. Surely the situation you described is possible even today, if the father is a best-in-class white collar employee. But that kind of prosperity is not available for all average Joes anymore. Not in any country. Today you have to be above average to earn big money. To have an excellent education. It's a global world we are living in and are all competing with each other. Like it or not...

Those were surely good old days, but I don't believe they are coming back.
 
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