What It Felt Like: I Took The F-16 Fighter To Nearly Mach 2.0

[Astro14]

A page from my logbook. November 4, 1993. Buno 159452, a block 80 airplane, built in the early 1970s. RIO was Dave Shugru.. the 2K2 mission code was a maintenance check flight. Because a new engine had been installed, our job was to validate that it worked correctly throughout the flight envelope. This included a Mach run up to minimum of 1.5.

But on that day (cold weather helped) we pushed it well beyond the minimum.

 

[y_p_w]

They are the Pratt & Whitney F100 and the GE F110. I don't know much about the difference other than the F100 was the first engine offered in the F-16. I believe the GE has more thrust but that the later versons of the F-100 are close and may be lighter weight. But I am not really sure of that.

Someone who has flown them both would have to give us the lowdown on them.

The version of the F110 that went into newer versions of the F-14 was supposedly way, way better than the PW TF30, which was never really supposed to be used in that application. I think Astro can discuss the cons of the TF30 and all the ways they tried to mitigate its deficiencies in the F-14.

The logbook that Astro noted showed a few flights in the F-14B, which I believe indicated an upgrade to the F110, which I believe was the F110-GE-400 version. I found a comparison.

 

[IndyFan]

The version of the F110 that went into newer versions of the F-14 was supposedly way, way better than the PW TF30, which was never really supposed to be used in that application. I think Astro can discuss the cons of the TF30 and all the ways they tried to mitigate its deficiencies in the F-14.

The logbook that Astro noted showed a few flights in the F-14B, which I believe indicated an upgrade to the F110, which I believe was the F110-GE-400 version. I found a comparison.

Yes, but we're not talking about the TF30. The F100 is the Pratt we're discussing. I'd imagine the F100 would have been an upgrade over the TF30, too.

The F100 is what originally powered the F-15 and early F-16's.

 

[tom slick]

The F100 still powers the US F-15 and F-16. F-16 is powered by either F100 or F110 depending on the model.

 

[Randol]

I started mt career at GE Aircraft engines as a test engineer on the line that built the analog engine controls for the F110-100 (F-16), -400 (F-14), F101 (B-1), F118 (B-2), and F-29 (U-2). The great engine war between GE and Pratt for the F-16 was fought in the 1st half of the 80's. What fond memories. We later developed a digital engine control for the F110, which became the F110-129.

 

[y_p_w]

The F100 still powers the US F-15 and F-16. F-16 is powered by either F100 or F110 depending on the model.

Not sure of al the particulars for the existing fleet, but this is what I found about the F-15EX.

GE will provide all F-15EX engines under $1.6B contract

The final delivery of GE's F110 engines would occur in 2031, and the engine deliveries would help produce 136 F-15EXs.

www.defensenews.com

 

[wpod]

A page from my logbook. November 4, 1993. Buno 159452, a block 80 airplane, built in the early 1970s. RIO was Dave Shugru.. the 2K2 mission code was a maintenance check flight. Because a new engine had been installed, our job was to validate that it worked correctly throughout the flight envelope. This included a Mach run up to minimum of 1.5.

But on that day (cold weather helped) we pushed it well beyond the minimum.
View attachment 99975

How does one gain familiarity with low hours per month ? I took an introduction to Helicopter maintenance class at the JC. to keep my continuing student status and there was a Coastie helo pilot taking the class and he said see these wings? They actually should be a desk because we don't get to fly much.

 

[y_p_w]

How does one gain familiarity with low hours per month ? I took an introduction to Helicopter maintenance class at the JC. to keep my continuing student status and there was a Coastie helo pilot taking the class and he said see these wings? They actually should be a desk because we don't get to fly much.

I think that's the key though. American military pilots get more flying time, even if it seems short.

I remember seeing the show Pan Am back about 10 years ago. The co-pilot is a former Navy test pilot and there's some scene where they're at a hotel pool in Asia where he's somehow chatting with some naval aviators and telling them that life as a civilian pilot isn't so bad. They're ragging on him for flying an airliner, but he's saying that he gets about 5x the time in the air as he did in the US Navy.

 

[tom slick]

Not sure of al the particulars for the existing fleet, but this is what I found about the F-15EX.

GE will provide all F-15EX engines under $1.6B contract

The final delivery of GE's F110 engines would occur in 2031, and the engine deliveries would help produce 136 F-15EXs.

www.defensenews.com

International F-15s (Israel, Saudi Arabia…) have had their choice of F110 or F100 for decades, the US only has F100 in their legacy F-15 fleet. The F-15EX is F110 powered.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

International F-15s (Israel, Saudi Arabia…) have had their choice of F110 or F100 for decades, the US only has F100 in their legacy F-15 fleet. The F-15EX is F110 powered.

Is there that much of a difference between these engines? If so, can you school me with the short version. I am very interested now.

 

[tom slick]

Some reading

General Electric F110 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

View topic - F 100 P&W 229 vs. F 110 GE 129 - for and against • F-16.net

Military aviation forum since 2003, with high quality discussion focusing on the F-16, F-35 and F-22 jet fighters and the C-130.

www.f-16.net

Read the summary

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/notes/2007/N3618.pdf

Lots of politics and pricing when your talking world politics and deal making.GE tried the same thing with the F-35 and F-135 engine without success.

 

[tom slick]

Maintenance wise the F100 uses a module based system where the back shop swaps out entire modules and sends the module out to rebuild facilities. The F110 doesn’t have modules and the back shop digs deeper into the engine for repairs. Sort of like swapping an entire transmission vs rebuilding its valve body and torque converter.