What is the chemistry behind Auto RX?

[kang]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
If you can find an average run of the mill oil that uses Ester for any reason, let alone cleaning, please share.


From Mobil 1's site: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Synthetic_Fluids_Mobil1.aspx

Quote:
We use many types of high performance synthetic fluid including esters and polyalphaolefins (PAO’s) in our fully synthetic Mobil 1 products. Each type of synthetic fluid plays a different role, so we use these different fluids to produce the best overall performance.


From the auto-rx FAQ:

Quote:
If you are adamant about continuing to run a “synthetic oil” during your Auto-Rx cleaning and rinse application, I suggest running a group III, synthetic oil. This is still a mineral oil, but more highly refined and has properties, such as pour point and durability very close to what is referred to as a full synthetic or group IV oil. Most group IV oils contain a relatively high level of esters in their formulation and do not perform as well during the rinsing phase in particular. This is due to the polar nature.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, but that's M1. Not run of the mill

The polar properties of PAO and Ester based formulations compete with Auto-Rx for space. It slows the process.

Are you somehow equating other polar actions with "cleaning" just because they have polar properties? How did you make that connection? Now something like RedLine can surely disrupt existing film formations with its aggressive (Ogresiff crock hunter RIP) add package ..but

 

[badtlc]

Since when is a fully synthetic Mobil 1 considered a typical motor oil? Last I checked, synthetics were far from run of the mill or ordinary.

 

[kang]

Now we’re just talking semantics. I’ve been using synthetics in all my cars for decades, they seem pretty typical to me.

I don’t see what the problem is. Auto-rx is a concentrated dose of a really good detergent. What’s the big deal? Oils already have detergents, some at a higher dose than others, and some are better than others.

 

[dargo]

wait till the patent expires and it will be for sale at dollar store..then no worries! LOL

 

[kang]

Originally Posted By: kang
Now we’re just talking semantics. I’ve been using synthetics in all my cars for decades, they seem pretty typical to me.

I don’t see what the problem is. Auto-rx is a concentrated dose of a really good detergent. What’s the big deal? Oils already have detergents, some at a higher dose than others, and some are better than others.


Addition: Sure, Auto-rx is proprietary, but so is Mobil 1’s detergent, and Castrol’s detergent, and so on. Each would tell you their’s is the best. None will reveal the secrets of their particular chemistry.

 

[dargo]

Kang- I see what you are getting at. YMMV, but you are on getting at a losing battle on this forum. Just look in the past. A patent is a good/bad thing. For me, you are better off with other "roads" then a patent.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Now we’re just talking semantics. I’ve been using synthetics in all my cars for decades, they seem pretty typical to me.


No ..you're trying to make it sound like semantics. Your typical usage of anything has no bearing on how typical the product is in it's construction, composition, and/or cost.

This is a very simple concept.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Auto-rx is a concentrated dose of a proprietary detergent.


Not in sense that we speak of motor oil detergents. The calcium/magnesium package usually acts as the detergent/dispersant agent.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/additives-detergent-dispersants.41162/

and

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/additives-xii-multifunctional-additives.41173/

A mix of very polar esters acts as a very good cleaner. The polar esters diffuse through carbon and sludge on their way to the attracted metal, softening them to the point that the oil's detergents can then sweep them away.

 

[JohnBrowning]

The problem here is failure of concept. Kang just simply does not understand it. It is a completely different product then what anyone else has. It is not deteregent and it is not a solvent in the conventional automotive sense of the word.Their is not another product on this earth that is like Auto-Rx it is a one of kind and no one has been able to work around the patent and create anything like it. Period.

As to the moleculare weight of modern florocarbons used to make modern seals like Viton and Teflon nothing in auto-rx can penatrate it. It would be like tossing gravle at a sheet of Mylar with the mylar representing modern florocarbons in seals and the gravel would be auto-rx. Now buna wich is so old school it isw not even funny for seal material would be like tossing the same gravel against a chain link fence. That is the difference in the molecular density of modern seal material compared to old school buna. Even something as harsh as B12 is not going to attack Viton or Teflon seals.

Short of takeing a H.S. chemistry class their is no way we can help you understand the process. It is not a matter of intelligence just a matter of specific understanding of various rules or laws that are involved.I hope this helped a little bit.

 

[BarkerMan]

About the patient. Frank could in fact give you all the ingredients in the right concentrations for you to blend and you would not get it right. The temps and pressures used in the process and the order they are mixed in are what make the product what it is. Some very smart people have invested a lot of interest, time and money in reverse engineering Auto-Rx and have all missed it. Maxwell Smart had it right when he held up his hand with the index finger and thumb about a half inch apart and said, "Missed it by that much!". Frank's blender is a very high tech operation and a lot of work goes into getting every batch right on the button.

If you think the product is going to show up in the Dollar Store in a few years you might be disappointed. The patient is part of the business process but is really not needed to protect the mix.

 

[Rick20]

Esters are used in many PAO oils to facilitate coupling in additive packages. They esters are not normally associated with any cleaning benefits.

The ester combination used in ARX are quite effective in dissolving deposits in a slow methodical manner, while imparting additional lubrication at the same time. At the same time these cleaning esters are not insulting to any seals or gasket materials. Franks product is truely unique.