What if the US introduces VAT?

[jorton]

Many members live in countries that charge Value added tax (VAT), or goods and services tax (GST). When it was introduced, how were gasoline and fuel prices affected?

Was it a huge blow to workers who live in rural areas and don't live near their work or school?

Do home heating costs in cold climates increase?

 

[Shannow]

Came in with changes in income tax (down), and alleged changes in state taxes like Stamp duty.

States never came through on their end.

I was a major opponent of the GST, and I cursed the (conservative) PM for introducing it in direct opposition to an election promise...now I sort of support it, but in the manner it happened.

Oz didn't introduce it on "primary" foods. I can buy a chicken, flour, herbs, and cooking oil sans GST...cook fried chicken at home, and I pay GST only on the energy...buy KFC, and pay 10% on top.

I got a reduction in income (throughput) tax, and can decide how I spend, and how much of my own money I pay others (and give to GOvt)

 

[moribundman]

In Germany, 70% of the gas price is due to various taxes:

1. mineral oil tax:
gas: 0.442 Euro/liter
Diesel: 0.347 Euro/liter
LPG: 0.261 Euro/kg

2.eco tax

3. oil stockpiling tax

4. 19% sales tax

As for the effect of the tax on affordability, driving is less expensive than ever, since the average person makes so much more money now. In 1960, the average German worker had to work for 13 minutes to afford one liter gas, now this takes only 4 minutes of labor.

 

[Silk]

New Zealand got GST (Goods and Services Tax) in about 1986 or 87,initially 10% and then a few years later to 12.5% where it has been ever since.GST is on EVERYTHING,no exemptions....if it goes through the till and books of a business,the tax is paid.The biggest burden is on businesses as there is a lot of paper work entailed to keep track of it.As a business you pay the government the tax....but can also claim it back if what you bought wasn't onsold.So if I bought a new piece of equipment for my business,I didn't onsell the product,so claimed the GST content back.

Of course everything went up in price....and wages didn't - what's new?

My sis in law has hooked up with some guy who did the biggest GST fraud ever....he's in jail at the moment for another GST fraud.Tax dept doesn't like you cheating.

 

[rshaw125]

It's just a method for the government to take a larger chunk of the pie.
The government just tries to come up with different packaging to fool the taxpayer.

 

[oilyriser]

They want to be able to screw you from both ends at the same time.

 

[Shannow]

rshaw125

At least a "consumption" tax looks a bit better than a progressive tax bracket situation.

It even get in those on welfare, as they consume too.

Gets you right back to "where does the money to pay for stuff, to tax for stuff, and produce stuff" come from ?

Each side is playing hide the sausage.

Maddoff ripped it off greedy idiots, who's pension earnings came from GM, who deferred payment to tomorrow for today's labour from those who borrowed (from GM) to buy a car that they didn't need, but they needed to borrow for to keep increasing the standard of living over that of their parents....who owned the stocks in GM, and endorsed GM moving their balance from selling cars to financing cars.

And there's somebody at the very top of the pyramid, lighting the Catherine Wheels

 

[paul246]

GST... gouge and screw tax.

Actually, I wish the government would raise the GST and abolish the Personal Income Tax.

They could collect on the increased consumer demand ( since we would have more disposable income) and we could decide where we could spend our new money.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Plenty of that VAT now, depends on your state. I live near (and worked in) the Commonwealth of Taxachusetts, our own little socialist state w/in the USA! they tax the spit out of everything, Income at 5%, they are now raising the sales tax to 6.5% from 5%. Gas is already taxed to a fare-thee-well by Fed and state. Most Highways have tolls, Phone bill is taxed, most all services are taxed - just supermarket food and some clothing is not. I'd prefer imports taxed up the ying (especially Korean and China Imports) - then maybe we can start to make some stuff in this country again.

 

[oilyriser]

Next July, Ontario residents get to pay 8% more for gasoline, as the provincial tax gets added on to everything that is now not taxed by both sales taxes.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: paul246
GST... gouge and screw tax.

Actually, I wish the government would raise the GST and abolish the Personal Income Tax.

They could collect on the increased consumer demand ( since we would have more disposable income) and we could decide where we could spend our new money.


And (although it's not really a mission critical issue in Canada) a sales tax (as *opposed* to, NOT in addition to, an income tax) would also negate much of the underground economy of illegal immigrants. They don't pay income taxes, but they all have to buy stuff.

 

[Shannow]

uc50ic4more,
that's true, but must then be tempered against the cash economy for tradesmen.

Yes, they pay GST on ALL inputs, including those that they sell out for cash jobs, but the GST on even the Cash inputs comes off the "profit" on the official books.

They can draw out of the system.

 

[oilyriser]

They need to call it YAT

Yet Another Tax.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I like the VAT. Captures consumption. Great concept.

 

[expat]

In Canada low income people also get a GST credit 4 times a year, to off-set the tax they paid.

 

[oilyriser]

yet another cost

 

[CivicFan]

Eliminate income tax and substitute it with a VAT where the tax is included in the price. Give tax rebates to the low income folk as it is done in Canada.

That's perhaps the fairest way to generate revenues for the state:

- it is simple and there are no loopholes to be used by the well-heeled;
- the prices will be uniformly comparable;
- transparent commerce;
- no resources wasted on annual tax preparation.

The infrastructure for electronic taxing is there so the implementation will not take much resources. To fund the state and local governments, they will get a share of the tax proceeds since this would be a federal platform.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
In 1960, the average German worker had to work for 13 minutes to afford one liter gas, now this takes only 4 minutes of labor.


This has nothing to do with the supply and demand of oil globally? I assume?

 

[oilyriser]

A tax system has to be dynamic. It has to be a nimble predator, that changes, hides, and adapts. This keeps people from finding loopholes and maximizes revenue.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

True. Our Income Tax system hasa existed so long that people have built their businesses not only on accomplishing business goals but also to avoid taxation. These writeoffs are hard earned through lobbying. Then there is an entire industry built on preparing and processing income taxes.
THe VAT levels the playing field( unless it is allowed to be written off...then it's just an illusion