What if ALL manufacturing jobs were outsourced?

[Merkava_4]

What if ALL manufacturing jobs were outsourced to other countries, would there still be enough jobs in other sectors for people to work? I asked that same question on different forum, and this is one of the interesting replies I got:

Quote:

No society can sustain itself without jobs that add value to something. Manufacturing is the easiest way to add value. You take steel worth $10 and turn it into a product worth $50. Value is added. Farming could be considered food manufacturing. When you get rid of manufacturing its gets harder to add value. Certainly professional services can add value, but not on the scale that manufacturing can. And it is the added value (profit) that fuels the economy through wages allowing folks to buy stuff and the cycle goes on. Real wealth and by that I mean a strong and large middle class, is built on manufacturing. Personally, unless we get back to making things, I hold out little hope for our country past the next generation.

Your thoughts?

 

[Shannow]

Too much voodoo in the system. In order to be able to sell the value added thing to a consumer, the consumers need money to buy stuff...I like the quote alleged to Henry Ford that he wanted his assembly line workers to be able to purchase a ford off that line...makes some sense. Then read about standard of living once being able to be maintained by primary bread-winner, then primary with extra hours/OT, then two incomes, and massive debt, and there's obviously something going wrong. Where's the start of the moneygoround ? What happens when money funnels up to the "elite". Is it ever sustainable without exponential growth of consumption ? Is infinite exponential growth doable on a finite planet ? (Is it going to be a nice place to live in the last doubling period ?)

 

[Trav]

Quote:

No society can sustain itself without jobs that add value to something. Manufacturing is the easiest way to add value. You take steel worth $10 and turn it into a product worth $50. Value is added. Farming could be considered food manufacturing. When you get rid of manufacturing its gets harder to add value. Certainly professional services can add value, but not on the scale that manufacturing can. And it is the added value (profit) that fuels the economy through wages allowing folks to buy stuff and the cycle goes on. Real wealth and by that I mean a strong and large middle class, is built on manufacturing. Personally, unless we get back to making things, I hold out little hope for our country past the next generation.

100% agree. A service based economy like the U.S. is turning into is a house of cards in gale force winds.

 

[mpvue]

all socioeconomic systems are inherently flawed. every society eventually fails, or is overthrown by another. it's just our turn.

 

[rshaw125]

Germany China and Japan all feel that a strong manufacturing/exporting economy is paramount. Only the US signs trade deals that favor other countries. Free trade? There is no such animal.

 

[Bluestream]

Your answer lies here: http://www.theonion.com/video/more-american-workers-outsourcing-own-jobs-oversea,14329/

 

[A_Harman]

I think we can all get rich and live comfortable lives by delivering pizza's to each other.

 

[opus1]

We're not there yet and can see how things are. It'll only get worse.

 

[saberz]

Well its the whole service industry over manufacturing. You need a little bit of both.

 

[mpvue]

every recession moves the rich further from the poor. of course, the rich NEED the poor, otherwise how would they know they are rich?

 

[Tempest]

The main reason we have fewer manufacturing jobs is due to increases in efficiency, not out sourcing overseas, though some jobs have been lost this way. It's about 4 to 1 efficiency to outsourcing though. This gain in efficiency is a very good thing as it generates more wealth (less time to make something) and makes things cheaper for us to buy. China's turn will come. They are currently generating a giant money bubble to create make work jobs for people so there won't be a revolution. This will eventually burst with not pretty results.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

China's turn will come. They are currently generating a giant money bubble to create make work jobs for people so there won't be a revolution. This will eventually burst with not pretty results.

I believe this is true as well. China seems to be growing too quickly to sustain itself. You might could draw a parallel with Toyota: striving to be the top auto maker and in the process, losing some of its core values and falling back to almost an also-ran, at least in sales growth, if not in absolute sales numbers as well. It seems that all quick-rising bubbles burst to some degree. What China's bubble burst will come from, I don't know. But I agree that it will come.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

The main reason we have fewer manufacturing jobs is due to increases in efficiency, not out sourcing overseas, though some jobs have been lost this way. It's about 4 to 1 efficiency to outsourcing though. This gain in efficiency is a very good thing as it generates more wealth (less time to make something) and makes things cheaper for us to buy. China's turn will come. They are currently generating a giant money bubble to create make work jobs for people so there won't be a revolution. This will eventually burst with not pretty results.

I think the ratio would be the other way around, 4 to outsource and 1 to efficiency. Eventually the only way for this to stop is when these manufacturing nations like Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, etc to be near our living standard, but then you have to make sure none of the nation in the rest of the world is in low living standard. Eventually the increase in efficiency will counter the lowered standard of living, but it would not make us living well near what we would have if no outsourcing is around. The ratio of health care and education expense vs food cost is a good example of that.

 

[CivicFan]

One of the ways to gain efficiency, <span style="font-weight: bold">for a US manufacturer</span>, is to outsource. It reduces the amount of wasted inputs, in this case Dollars paid as labor cost.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

One of the ways to gain efficiency, for a US manufacturer, is to outsource. It reduces the amount of wasted inputs, in this case Dollars paid as labor cost.

Only if quality and deadlines can be met.

 

[TurboLuver]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

The main reason we have fewer manufacturing jobs is due to increases in efficiency, not out sourcing overseas, though some jobs have been lost this way. It's about 4 to 1 efficiency to outsourcing though.

Got a source on that? Obviously you don't shop at WalMart.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

I think the ratio would be the other way around, 4 to outsource and 1 to efficiency.

I posted the article some time back but can't find it. Here is another:

Quote:

Bottom Line: Manufacturing worker productivity has doubled in the last 17 years since 1993, and that has contributed to the loss of more than 11 millions jobs. That is, if factory workers were only as productive today as their counterparts in 1993, it would require more than 23 million factory workers today to produce $3.26 trillion worth of manufacturing output today, instead of the 11.7 million workers employed today to produce that much manufacturing output.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/228308-i...or-loss-of-jobs

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

One of the ways to gain efficiency, for a US manufacturer, is to outsource. It reduces the amount of wasted inputs, in this case Dollars paid as labor cost.

Only if quality and deadlines can be met.

Yeah, they seem to be able to do so most of the time.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

Yeah, they seem to be able to do so most of the time.

Market forces (competition) compel them to provide what the customer wants, or they don't get the work.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

The main reason we have fewer manufacturing jobs is due to increases in efficiency, not out sourcing overseas, though some jobs have been lost this way. It's about 4 to 1 efficiency to outsourcing though.

So, why is 97-98% of all apparel made overseas now? Unless you are mixing terms & saying that efficiency includes outsourcing...

Originally Posted By: Tempest

This gain in efficiency is a very good thing as it generates more wealth (less time to make something) and makes things cheaper for us to buy.

Yep, those dang ATMs are stealing all our jobs!