What happens if high tech workers making six figures are no longer a hot commodity?

[UncleDave]

Hafta disagree UD. It takes both.
Yes, there are programmers who are exceptional with little schooling. But that is not nearly as true as it was in the early days.
And yes expertise comes from successful experience (because you learned from others and your mistakes).
The prized programmers have a knowledge of the application subject matter. How can you code a financial forecast, or BOM critical path program without a strong understanding of the subject matter? Your programming skills are just your hand tools. By the way, functional specs are for sissys; they get in my way. If I cannot discuss the subject matter how can I tell a computer to do it?

Nowadays, you hit a ceiling without a degree. That piece of paper opens a lotta doors.
If you want those golden handcuffs, you need to be well rounded. You just may be arguing business logic with a CEO (if you get good enough, that is). But as you say, ultimately results matter.
All good.

Let me finesse this a bit - We are mostly aligned.

Its rare that I find a qualified SW guy without the education, but I sometimes do - and when I do I dont care they dont have paper.

For example - Ill forgoe your paper if you have experience.

Just because you have the paper doenst mean you didnt graduate at the bottom of your class and it guarantees me nothing.

Here's a job offer we have on the table right now.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Let me finesse this a bit - We are mostly aligned.

Its rare that I find a qualified SW guy without the education, but I sometimes do - and when I do I dont care they dont have paper.

For example - Ill forgoe your paper if you have experience.

Just because you have the paper doenst mean you didnt graduate at the bottom of your class and it guarantees me nothing.

Here's a job offer we have on the table right now.


View attachment 118173

I hear Superman already has a job.
By the way spawning a thread is natural in C++; create a thread object and pass the code and blah blah blah...

All good.

 

[ecotourist]

So could these high paying jobs be taken over by technology or off-shoring?

At one point I had 20 or so transcriptionists working for me, and was well aware that I could outsource most or all of their work to an English speaking country 12 hours away, and save a boat load of money. So why didn't I do it? For a start there was no need to reduce my costs by doing things like that. And I had a loyal workforce that worked hard and was doing a very good job. Finally there is a moral problem in putting a group of loyal employees out of work.

But another director might have done it. So people should be aware that many jobs could be off-shored for big savings.

For the record, we experimented with voice recognition software a couple of times but could never get it to work well enough. When we were testing it we were able to guarantee there would be no job losses. Some of our staff could have been re-deployed. There is always some turnover and vacated positions would simply not be filled. And some staff would have been required to touch up the transcriptions being typed elsewhere.

 

[PimTac]

Can you pull a guy off a roofing crew and set him in front of a computer and write software?

Can you take a software writer and throw him on a roof and tell him to get at it?

Probably not.


Each job has its own skill sets.

 

[doitmyself]

Can you take a software writer and throw him on a roof and tell him to get at it?

Probably not.

Each job has its own skill sets.

So very true. I chuckle a bit when local, nationally esteemed university professors at my workplace ask me to change their lawn mower spark plug (not because they are lazy, but because of lack of skills). Likewise, ask me to do some SAS or R analysis.......................oops.

 

[tmorris1]

Can you pull a guy out of his air conditioned office where he sits all day in front of a computer writing software and put him with an asphalt paving crew when it's 100°F? Most times no. He won't last an hour.

They may not want to , but I work with people that could. You get paid for skills and what you know and can do. That is just the facts. Software and engineering is a skill that is highly sought after and you get paid well if you can do it well. It is something that not everyone has the knowledge to do.

 

[tmorris1]

Can you take a software writer and throw him on a roof and tell him to get at it?

Probably not.


Each job has its own skill sets.

I agree, but they also have their own pay grades.
I don't want to get get into which job is harder or tougher or any other stuff, but it takes a lot less training to be a roofer than it does to design and engineer software.

 

[tmorris1]

So very true. I chuckle a bit when local, nationally esteemed university professors at my workplace ask me to change their lawn mower spark plug (not because they are lazy, but because of lack of skills). Likewise, ask me to do some SAS or R analysis.......................oops.

Yes I could by the way.

 

[brianl703]

So very true. I chuckle a bit when local, nationally esteemed university professors at my workplace ask me to change their lawn mower spark plug (not because they are lazy, but because of lack of skills).

Where I used to live, one of my neighbors there is an electrical engineer. He emailed me one day saying his AC wasn't working and if I could recommend someone to fix it. I told him I'd come over and take a look at it.

Run capacitor was "puffy". We went to a HVAC supply house and got another one and I put it in for him.

He told me he didn't know how to do any of what I just did, and he was in fact afraid to open the unit!

 

[SC Maintenance]

Can you take a software writer and throw him on a roof and tell him to get at it?

Probably not.


Each job has its own skill sets.

You could train a software engineer to roof a house. Whether they would be willing to do it or physically be able to keep up is a whole different matter.

Probably very few roofers could be taught to code. In fact, even a lot of very smart people couldn't be taught. They could be taught the syntax, but the ability to envision how software works from beginning to end, and writing it and correcting all the bugs, is an extremely rare skill - its almost a type of brain your born with.

I am not looking down on manual labor - quite the contrary - I was raised doing it, and we should encourage more people to do it - we need people to do it. In fact, I know how to do a roof - in asphalt shingles at least - my dad taught me decades ago. I also have an engineering degree.

But its supply and demand - programmers get paid what they do because there rare. Roofers while important are not rare.

 

[tmorris1]

It the worker is willing to do what it takes to learn, then why not?
I am living proof of just that.

I agree if they are willing and have the aptitude, but it is going to take years to train that person before they would be productive versus weeks or days.

 

[javacontour]

A general laborer is more than welcome to apply for an office job if they think they're qualified for it.

I work for an engineering/environmental company and the ones who are out in the field the most are usually the lesser experienced and lesser qualified folks. The ones who are in the office more (project managers, admin staff) are more qualified, have a lot more responsibilities as they have to manage multiple aspects and projects, and have certain skills and knowledge that only come with experience. If the field workers want to "stay in the office" more, they can build up their experience and knowledge like everybody else does and thus make themselves more valuable.

Or we just don't want to be managers as people are much more difficult than things.
My boss would tell you I'm far more qualified, at least regarding technical things compared to him.

But my "field" is different as it's driving to different customer data centers.
In some cases, the MOST technically qualified folks are the ones in the field as they are the face in front of the customer.
I don't think I want the job my boss has. He gets it from three sides, management, customers and us when the intersection of what each wants is impossible. He has the unenviable task for trying to keep everyone reasonably happy.
I'm experienced enough to know there isn't enough money in the world to deal with some of these clowns.

 

[SeaJay]

Where I used to live, one of my neighbors there is an electrical engineer. He emailed me one day saying his AC wasn't working and if I could recommend someone to fix it. I told him I'd come over and take a look at it.

Run capacitor was "puffy". We went to a HVAC supply house and got another one and I put it in for him.

He told me he didn't know how to do any of what I just did, and he was in fact afraid to open the unit!

If you don't know how to do something, you often do not want to just dive in and figure it out yourself.

There are a ton of things I could do myself but would have to figure it out as I go along. Life is too short to spend time to learn (which can often take a while with its share of frustrations) if instead you have the resources to pay someone who knows what to do and get it done quickly and efficiently.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You could train a software engineer to roof a house. Whether they would be willing to do it or physically be able to keep up is a whole different matter.

Probably very few roofers could be taught to code. In fact, even a lot of very smart people couldn't be taught. They could be taught the syntax, but the ability to envision how software works from beginning to end, and writing it and correcting all the bugs, is an extremely rare skill - its almost a type of brain your born with.

I am not looking down on manual labor - quite the contrary - I was raised doing it, and we should encourage more people to do it - we need people to do it. In fact, I know how to do a roof - in asphalt shingles at least - my dad taught me decades ago. I also have an engineering degree.

But its supply and demand - programmers get paid what they do because there rare. Roofers while important are not rare.

At first I was gonna disagree; but your point about vision is well put. I worked with many people far smarter than me, but could not envision, code, deliver and speak to an end-to-end solution. The "speak to" component is actually critical, because you might end up discussing/debating logic with C-Level members like @UncleDave. And it better work! A lotta fun, actually. If they don't kill you, that is...

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree if they are willing and have the aptitude, but it is going to take years to train that person before they would be productive versus weeks or days.

Agreed. It is all about what you want and if you are willing to go to requisite lengths to get there. Just like anything else worth having, I guess.

 

[doitmyself]

is an extremely rare skill - its almost a type of brain your born with.

I believe this is a very important concept also. We used to hear the statement "naturally born leader". Yes, we can all learn and grow to be proficient in many things. But many people seem to excel with a passion that seems to be something they were "born with". My career is ag. and natural resource related and I receive a paycheck no matter what happens (expensive repair, crop failure, etc.). I cannot imagine being a real farmer, business owner, or entrepreneur who is personally responsible for the outcome. These people thrive on the challenge.

There are people at all levels of skill sets that seem to excel due to this "born-with" characteristic. It's different than those of us who educate ourselves into a skilled position. We are more than competent, but not quite like those that have that passion/natural ability upgrade. Just my opinion.

 

[Owen Lucas]

He told me he didn't know how to do any of what I just did, and he was in fact afraid to open the unit!

And it's best he didn't, wait....an electrical engineer? I've heard of some people calling the garage door repair company to reprogram a new door opener.

 

[doitmyself]

And it's best he didn't, wait....an electrical engineer? I've heard of some people calling the garage door repair company to reprogram a new door opener.

Similar to my story above. That same person might be able to calculate the trajectory of a space ship to intercept Mars two years from now while earning a high six figure salary. Why not delegate the garage door programming? But, I think we have made the point and we are straying way off topic (the enjoyment of making fun of engineer mentality is overwhelming - I suffer from layman engineer brain disfunction).

 

[Owen Lucas]

Similar to my story above. That same per person might be able to calculate the trajectory of a space ship to intercept Mars two years from now while earning a six figure salary. Why not delegate the garage door programming?

Good point, some peoples time is not worth the effort.

A lot of us here focus on preserving our vehicles and maintaining them ourselves either out of cost savings or for hobby reasons, but if we made $1M/yr would we still do the same? In those shoes I'd lease and no longer care about maintenance or longevity because I'd just flip for a new one in 1 or 2 years or just have someone take my vehicle to the mechanic.

Maybe I'd still work on a project car as a hobby or just farm that out to a restorer since my time is worth more focusing on making money instead of doing a DIY brake job.

 

[CKN]

Good point, some peoples time is not worth the effort.

A lot of us here focus on preserving our vehicles and maintaining them ourselves either out of cost savings or for hobby reasons, but if we made $1M/yr would we still do the same? In those shoes I'd lease and no longer care about maintenance or longevity because I'd just flip for a new one in 1 or 2 years or just have someone take my vehicle to the mechanic.

Maybe I'd still work on a project car as a hobby or just farm that out to a restorer since my time is worth more focusing on making money instead of doing a DIY brake job.

Someone on here claims he has multiple real estate investments-but he crawls under vehicles to fix to repair and the "flip" them. I don't know if I believe him about his rentals.

And does a vent thread on here about a $5.00 charge at a junk yard.