What are your opinions of hydrocracked Syns vs PAO Syns?

[kmrcstintn]

I am confused on the "fine line" that is allowed in the U.S. about group III stock hydrocracked synthetics and molecular-aligned PAO synthetics?

If the PAO's and other molecular-aligned synthetics are so much superior, why are companies allowed to call group III stock hydrocracked oils "synthetics?"

How much more is offered by PAO over hydrocracked?

 

[JAG]

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/BaseOils/docs/npra_paper.pdf

It's allowed because Group 3 basestocks are highly processed and were considered enough of an improvement over Group 2 oils that they could be considered synthetic.

Some Group 3 based motor oils are superior in many ways to some PAO based motor oils, depending on the additive packages used. PAO has an advantage but the advantage can be lost if the additive package isn't top notch.

 

[surfstar]

Technically its allowed b/c Castrol won the lawsuit.

Most on here will concede a well formulated GIII will perform on par with a PAO for most applications.

 

[Winston]

Excellent article Jag. Very detailed comparison between GIII and PAO. Clearly a little biased, but still a great paper.

 

[Ray H]

There was NO "lawsuit" or other U.S. court action in the matter between Castrol and Mobil. The matter in the U.S. was decided by mutual agreement between Castrol and Mobil through binding arbitration by the Better Business Bureau's National Advertising Division. Part of that preliminary agreement included the stipulation that both parties would abide by the NAD appointed independent arbitrator's decision. Castrol and Mobil settled their dispute amicably. Too bad BITOGers are still sluggin' the issue out on the internet every other week.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Ok, so, as a practical matter is there a purely Grp III synthetic that is as good as M1 PAO? Or do they get to call cheaper stuff Syn, charge the same, and really they're just shamming us?

Is there a grpIII syn that's substantially cheaper than M1? If it's as good for cheaper, M1 is starting to feel like good money after bad, truthfully. Here, it's $6.25/ qt for SS, and $6.87 for the EP stuff. It has gone up radically the last couple of months since my last OCI. Isn't worth it, unless of course, M1 really IS ideal for my 7500-10K OCI.

But the Castrol syn is no cheaper than M-1, or only by a little. Valvoline Syn, the same. I think the PP is PAO? It's just shy of M-1 here, price-wise. Is getting the REAL DEAL worth the extra buck a quart when we're talking the GRPIII syns are $5-5.50 a quart anyway?

I know all these are good oils, and adequate, but at what point is it throwing good bux after bad? IS the extra money worth it? And now from deeper reading, I find that even $1.58/QT Havoline is a mix of GrpII/GrpIII in 5W20 with a pretty good additive package to boot? I'm getting educated right out of M1 (and even the GrpIII "syn") if these oils are THIS close to one another, especially in a non-performance, non-critical application as a 4-banger roller-skate.

The logical destination for all this is, if it's all equivalent, jeez, I might as well go buy, I dunno, 6 cases of Havoline 5W20 API-SM for $118.00 with tax for my 7500 OCI, and call it a day, oil-purchase wise, for the life of the vehicle.

Not to be disloyal to M1 or anything, but why shouldn't I?

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I agree.......if I can get the 5w20 Havoline and it will make it 7500-10k, why not?
Who's with me?!

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Well, 10K is pushing the point with dino from what I read, and I'm happy not to be changing every three K, having a difficult line to the filter will do that for you.

But 5-7K on the Havoline for $6.25 for a 4 quart OCI plus a new Amsoil filter every second or third change, is that unreasonable?

Man, I've defended M1 to the death, but finding some of the older threads, older UOA, and the posts of a few of the guys here that KNOW this stuff (as opposed to the emo-types with a personal ax to grind) really opened up the old eyeballs the last couple of days.

When I think of the 55 or 60 3K OCI I did with M1 at around 26 bucks a pop on my last car I wanna... I dunno..

 

[outrun]

My latest moral dilemna 6,8,10k miles on GC or Mobil 1 EP. My qualm is not with the oil but keeping my engine as clean as possible. PAO gives me an edge there, however at a 6-7k interval Amsoil 7500 is an excellent GrpIII and internal cleanliness would not be an issue ...at least id hope so