What are these GM requirements?

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What are these GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025 motor oil requirements? Do they apply only to cars in Europe like the Opel and Saab? It is my understanding that the EcoTec engine was developed in Europe. If so, and if these engines need oils that meet these requirments, then somebody better tell GM dealerships and Saturn dealerships. Either that, or we better go to the nearest Saab dealership and stock up on oil.
 

Mystic

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That is what I have heard, but I don't know if that is accurate or not. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the EcoTec was developed by GM for both European vehicles and American vehicles. But I totally don't remember if the information was on television, or in a newspaper article, or magazine article.
 
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Loveland, Colorado
Mystic, As far as I'm aware, only certain Saab & Opel '03 models are required to use these oils to satisfy their warranties. In the US, only one Saab model specifies its use. I don't believe any '03 GM vehicles require oil meeting this GM spec. I'm pretty sure each car requiring the use of this oil has GM's latest Oil Life Monitor, programmed for fully synthetic oil. My earlier research into this spec pointed to it being an attempt to earn environmental "brownie points" for GM, rather than being related to any magical properties in the oils meeting the spec. Since the ACEA ratings are not consistant among the 12 oils I found, & since GM eventualy refused to send me their LL-A/B-025 specs, I can't believe this is anything other than a "forced extended use" spec.
 
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951
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Loveland, Colorado
No, it means your OLM is programmed to calculate oil life based on the recommendations in your manual. I'm not familiar with Saturn's oil requirements, so I don't know how your OLM is set up. The Buick we have at work recommends dino oil, & so the OLM is programmed for that. The Corvette specs Mobil 1, & folks here have said its OLM is programmed for quite a bit longer intervals. The new Saab OLM is set up for a max of 2yrs/18k mi intervals using GM-LL-A-025 approved oil. But all of the oils I discovered meeting this spec are full syn, & the two available (so far) in the US are both made by Mobil & both PAO based. Requiring an oil which meets this new spec insures that the owner won't buy 79¢ Accel oil ("Meets API SA!") & then come crying to GM when his engine seizes. But like I said, this appears to be mostly a "feel good" spec for earning GM environmental credits. GM can "force" owners into extended drains ("Not that there's anything wrong with that!") & reap the financial incentives offered by lowering the environmental impact. I agree with getting people off of the short drain mentality, but I don't like the idea of cloaking your "spec" in secrecy & implying some better oils aren't good enough. The Saab oil is lower in viscosity & HT/HS than M1 0W-40, but higher in diesel-style additives. Because of these aspects, I wouldn't hesitate to use either M1 15W-50 or Delvac 1 5W-40 in place of the two "approved" oils. They won't meet the CAFE requirements, but their combinations of viscosity, HT/HS & additive packages put them ahead of the GM-LL oils for durability & protection (especially in Saab's turbocharged engines).
 

Patman

Staff member
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Oakville, Ontario
With any GM OLM, it's initially set up to give a default value based on the maximum service interval of that particular case, and then it deducts mileage from that point. So if you've got a car that's set up with a 15k oil interval like the Vette, it starts at that point, and then the harder you drive it the quicker it will count down obviously. But take another GM car with a 7500 mile interval, and it'll start at that point and move downwards.
 
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